Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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Big Tea
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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subcritical71 wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:21 am
Big Tea wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:13 pm
Despite us having a talking shop here, Red Bull and Renault are professional businesses and will act in a businesslike manor.

We need an engine, what is available- looks like just the Renault. - OK we need it, get it.

But we had problems with them before and fell out, it will be embarrassing to go back.

ITS YOUR JOB, DO IT OR I WILL REPLACE YOU. Erm, ok then


Knock knock,

Who is it?

Erm, Cyril, its Chris. We need an engine.

OK, it will cost you this much, cough up ( that will look nice on the balance sheet :mrgreen: )
While I agree, can Renault include a few clauses in their contract which will preclude any public criticism(?) Can they specify financial penalties?
(as far as I know) If RBR go to F1 and say 'we have no engine', Renault will be mandated to supply one. How much leeway is included I do not know, but I can recall no mention of any conditions, just they will supply it.
But, under the rules now in place are they not compelled to supply exactly the same engine as they themselves use?

Again assuming that 'engine' means everything, or everything the customer chooses to take, they will have exactly the same as Renault, or be in the office complaining to F1, which they seem very ready to do.

There is probably a world worth of 'gubbins' that they themselves will chose to use though. They have or had a gearbox , dif, etc. Will use their own cooling. But what free choice they have of the re-gen and Kers they can have, I really do not know, and it would probably never be common knowledge, so 'an engine fail' could still be publicly attributed to Renault even if it was a RBR part that failed.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

NL_Fer
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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So in 2022 we will see a return of Infinity Redbull Racing

epo
epo
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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NL_Fer wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:04 pm
So in 2022 we will see a return of Infinity Redbull Racing
Really, Renault would be their last, last and last resort. If they can’t make their own engine (from the Honda with a partner) or no Mercedes they probably leave.

SmallSoldier
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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epo wrote:
NL_Fer wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 6:04 pm
So in 2022 we will see a return of Infinity Redbull Racing
Really, Renault would be their last, last and last resort. If they can’t make their own engine (from the Honda with a partner) or no Mercedes they probably leave.
It’s way more probable for Red Bull to go back to Renault than building their own engines


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Scorpaguy
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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F1 is politics and politics are strange. Still, I do not think Renault is an option for RB as long as Cyril remains. I just do not think RB is that interested in Renault mills anyway. I think they have a dual path plan for next year...

1. be competitive from the outset with the Honda mill and opt for an engine partner.

2. have Merc eat their lunch like this year and they walk at years end.

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Big Tea
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Scorpaguy wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:41 am
F1 is politics and politics are strange. Still, I do not think Renault is an option for RB as long as Cyril remains. I just do not think RB is that interested in Renault mills anyway. I think they have a dual path plan for next year...

1. be competitive from the outset with the Honda mill and opt for an engine partner.

2. have Merc eat their lunch like this year and they walk at years end.
I can well imagine that at some time during the off season (or sooner) a team from Renault, not Alpine, the boss company, will meet a team from Mateschitz and decide what happens. If there is money in it, and mateschitz wants it, Helmut and Cyril will recieve instructions on what IS happening and they will be left in no doubt they will do what is needed and smile at the press.

Sport is one thing business another. An old adage is - there is no sentiment in business
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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djos
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Big Tea wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:23 pm

Sport is one thing business another. An old adage is - there is no sentiment in business
And there is another that says "Business is war!". 8)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Tramiel
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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El Scorchio
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Sieper wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:54 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:22 am
Sieper wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:19 am


What Renault delivered those days was inexcusable. No other team would have accepted that. Now finally things are better.
But you keep it in house and try to go forward together. Not try to publicly shame them. Very unprofessional. They’ll start going after Honda now.
You sound like you have a personal beef. I strongly oppose your statements.
Well, I'm not a fan of the way those two conduct themselves sometimes with the way they address various things- like the Renault engine situation, certain comments about their own and other drivers- that's for sure. I for example would never conduct myself like that in business. However as I believe you are quite a big Red Bull fan, I am sure you would strongly oppose that point of view! But hey we all disagree about things and it would be pretty boring on here if we didn't.

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Sieper
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:53 am
Sieper wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:54 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:22 am


But you keep it in house and try to go forward together. Not try to publicly shame them. Very unprofessional. They’ll start going after Honda now.
You sound like you have a personal beef. I strongly oppose your statements.
Well, I'm not a fan of the way those two conduct themselves sometimes with the way they address various things- like the Renault engine situation, certain comments about their own and other drivers- that's for sure. I for example would never conduct myself like that in business. However as I believe you are quite a big Red Bull fan, I am sure you would strongly oppose that point of view! But hey we all disagree about things and it would be pretty boring on here if we didn't.
I myself would probably have been very carefull too. But the mecachrome units have had so many problems, both Ricciardo as well as Verstappen had an incredible number of retirements. Every race, every session I was always expecting a malfunction at any time. Mercedes had a handfull of issues during those years. 2019 even renault still suffered. During second part and now they are finally improving to a more acceptable level. But what happened during those years was just so painful. It really was too much. And to then say, yeah the customer was being harsh in their action, really goes against how I feel, yes a big fan of them, that is certainly very true! But it was simply unacceptable, I have no other words. Incredible it actually was reality, I am still sad about that. Against that outlook I don’t feel RBR was going too far. I do object to fanspeak about Renault in those years. Which was atrocious by some.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

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El Scorchio
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Sieper wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:21 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:53 am
Sieper wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:54 pm


You sound like you have a personal beef. I strongly oppose your statements.
Well, I'm not a fan of the way those two conduct themselves sometimes with the way they address various things- like the Renault engine situation, certain comments about their own and other drivers- that's for sure. I for example would never conduct myself like that in business. However as I believe you are quite a big Red Bull fan, I am sure you would strongly oppose that point of view! But hey we all disagree about things and it would be pretty boring on here if we didn't.
I myself would probably have been very carefull too. But the mecachrome units have had so many problems, both Ricciardo as well as Verstappen had an incredible number of retirements. Every race, every session I was always expecting a malfunction at any time. Mercedes had a handfull of issues during those years. 2019 even renault still suffered. During second part and now they are finally improving to a more acceptable level. But what happened during those years was just so painful. It really was too much. And to then say, yeah the customer was being harsh in their action, really goes against how I feel, yes a big fan of them, that is certainly very true! But it was simply unacceptable, I have no other words. Incredible it actually was reality, I am still sad about that. Against that outlook I don’t feel RBR was going too far. I do object to fanspeak about Renault in those years. Which was atrocious by some.
That is definitely true. They did have every right to be (more privately though?) upset about the engines, especially if they felt all the other elements of the car were good enough to make it a title contender. They probably ALL suffered relatively and it was made to look worse because Mercedes came out with a complete beast right off the bat. I get the frustration of going from first to nowhere more or less overnight and I certainly wouldn't say Renault were 'right' and RBR were 'wrong' if there are two sides to this and you never know exactly what was said confidentially between the two entities. I'm just not a fan of the public blame game that was played and then needlessly resurrected after the Honda deal, really. In the long run, no-one has won.

But I do hope RBR find something competitive for 2022 onward, even if it means taking their medicine and working with Renault again. The sport needs them to be a strong team because no-one else is really close.

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carisi2k
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Don't worry the Renault engine will not be going in to a Red Bull ever again. Red Bull will either take over the Honda PU or quit Formula 1.

Renault engine has to be decent because Daniel has been getting close to max recently and we know the Renault chassis isn't on par with the RB in Max's hands.

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Big Tea
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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carisi2k wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:38 am
Don't worry the Renault engine will not be going in to a Red Bull ever again. Red Bull will either take over the Honda PU or quit Formula 1.

Renault engine has to be decent because Daniel has been getting close to max recently and we know the Renault chassis isn't on par with the RB in Max's hands.
Well Torro Rosso said they will never use a Renault too. and they mean it :mrgreen:
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

PhillipM
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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There is no way on earth Honda is gonna outsource/sell all the PU knowledge they've spent so much on. It's just not the way Honda does things, they keep all their engineers and research in house when they can.

holeindalip
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Especially since INDYCAR is going hybrid....

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carisi2k
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PhillipM wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:53 pm
There is no way on earth Honda is gonna outsource/sell all the PU knowledge they've spent so much on. It's just not the way Honda does things, they keep all their engineers and research in house when they can.
This is why I suspect the later is likely to happen. It doesn't matter how good the Renault power unit is their is too much bad blood between Red Bull and Renault for them to ever team up again.

My worry is that the Renault PU has progressed so much that I wonder if Daniel is making the right decision to go to Mclaren.