Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
GhostF1
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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diffuser wrote:
Wed Mar 23, 2022 1:39 am
Juzh wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:16 pm
diffuser wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:06 pm


Ferrari
That's what I said :?:
"Based on weekend observations I believe ferrari has the most downforce but also quite some drag which they are neutralising with their super fast PU."
Sorry misread that. Thought you because the PU has more power.
Juzh is is saying they have more power.. Ferrari look to be running the most downforce and yet are still fast on the straights. It implies they have a strong PU.

It's pretty noticeable across the field anyway. There seems to be a general trend of the Ferrari and Honda powered teams being towards the top in acceleration/top speeds and the Merc/Alpine a touch lower. Wolff said he wants to check to confirm if they are lacking a bit of power but feels their pace was a general loss across the car.

Either way, it's a bit early to say for sure but all four manufacturers seem the closest they've ever been to each other.

But nice stuff with that post Juzh. Great information!

gruntguru
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Bisonas wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 10:52 am
Any info or insight on why the Alpines where not using 8th gear in the race?
Alonso i think almost never used 8th gear, and i saw ocon on 8th gear only when he was using DRS in the race.
Is it engine maps? gear ratio ? being cautious for the first race to get more data? It was the first real test of the PU in race trim. Any thoughts ?

IMO, I don't think that the PU is truly optimized yet. And i don't think it will be until the summer.
I think MGU-K, CE and ES can still be developed and change the specification only one time until 1st September. And for 2022 only i think they can change the gear ratios also one time. Personally i will judge the Renault PU after the summer break. After summer break there are no excuses.
Gear ratios must be selected at the beginning of the season (one change of ratios is permitted during the season but cannot then revert to the original ratios). This means teams must select 8th gear to suit the top speed on the fastest track. This may mean that 8th gear is not required on some or all of the other tracks.
je suis charlie

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diffuser
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Mar 23, 2022 2:07 am
diffuser wrote:
Wed Mar 23, 2022 1:39 am
Juzh wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:16 pm

That's what I said :?:
"Based on weekend observations I believe ferrari has the most downforce but also quite some drag which they are neutralising with their super fast PU."
Sorry misread that. Thought you because the PU has more power.
Juzh is is saying they have more power.. Ferrari look to be running the most downforce and yet are still fast on the straights. It implies they have a strong PU.

It's pretty noticeable across the field anyway. There seems to be a general trend of the Ferrari and Honda powered teams being towards the top in acceleration/top speeds and the Merc/Alpine a touch lower. Wolff said he wants to check to confirm if they are lacking a bit of power but feels their pace was a general loss across the car.

Either way, it's a bit early to say for sure but all four manufacturers seem the closest they've ever been to each other.

But nice stuff with that post Juzh. Great information!

Right but that's not what the graph shows. It's just what you're saying, Juhz said he didn't say that Alpine have more or less power than Ferrari.

Image

In the Red circle above, You can see that the red and blue lines of acceleration are identical. A car that accelerates faster would have a more vertical like the yellow line I drew.

The Yellow Circle just shows the Ferrari braking later, carrying more speed into the Corner and on the throttle earlier. It also shows the acceleration line incline there is slightly steeper for Alpine. meaning it's accelerating faster.

GhostF1
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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diffuser wrote:
Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:43 am
GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Mar 23, 2022 2:07 am
diffuser wrote:
Wed Mar 23, 2022 1:39 am


Sorry misread that. Thought you because the PU has more power.
Juzh is is saying they have more power.. Ferrari look to be running the most downforce and yet are still fast on the straights. It implies they have a strong PU.

It's pretty noticeable across the field anyway. There seems to be a general trend of the Ferrari and Honda powered teams being towards the top in acceleration/top speeds and the Merc/Alpine a touch lower. Wolff said he wants to check to confirm if they are lacking a bit of power but feels their pace was a general loss across the car.

Either way, it's a bit early to say for sure but all four manufacturers seem the closest they've ever been to each other.

But nice stuff with that post Juzh. Great information!

Right but that's not what the graph shows. It's just what you're saying, Juhz said he didn't say that Alpine have more or less power than Ferrari.

https://i.ibb.co/Nt732Nm/2022-03-23-04-15.png

In the Red circle above, You can see that the red and blue lines of acceleration are identical. A car that accelerates faster would have a more vertical like the yellow line I drew.

The Yellow Circle just shows the Ferrari braking later, carrying more speed into the Corner and on the throttle earlier. It also shows the acceleration line incline there is slightly steeper for Alpine. meaning it's accelerating faster.
Yeah I understood that. But you're also not taking into account that Ferrari are very clearly, well almost certainly running higher downforce than Alpine, add that and then you can fairly quickly extrapolate from that graph the difference there must be in power between the two manufacturers.
Juzh makes mention that Ferrari's power unit strength affords them the ability to run more downforce than others without a speed loss. Make of that what you will.

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diffuser
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GhostF1 wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 2:10 am
diffuser wrote:
Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:43 am
GhostF1 wrote:
Wed Mar 23, 2022 2:07 am


Juzh is is saying they have more power.. Ferrari look to be running the most downforce and yet are still fast on the straights. It implies they have a strong PU.

It's pretty noticeable across the field anyway. There seems to be a general trend of the Ferrari and Honda powered teams being towards the top in acceleration/top speeds and the Merc/Alpine a touch lower. Wolff said he wants to check to confirm if they are lacking a bit of power but feels their pace was a general loss across the car.

Either way, it's a bit early to say for sure but all four manufacturers seem the closest they've ever been to each other.

But nice stuff with that post Juzh. Great information!

Right but that's not what the graph shows. It's just what you're saying, Juhz said he didn't say that Alpine have more or less power than Ferrari.

https://i.ibb.co/Nt732Nm/2022-03-23-04-15.png

In the Red circle above, You can see that the red and blue lines of acceleration are identical. A car that accelerates faster would have a more vertical like the yellow line I drew.

The Yellow Circle just shows the Ferrari braking later, carrying more speed into the Corner and on the throttle earlier. It also shows the acceleration line incline there is slightly steeper for Alpine. meaning it's accelerating faster.
Yeah I understood that. But you're also not taking into account that Ferrari are very clearly, well almost certainly running higher downforce than Alpine, add that and then you can fairly quickly extrapolate from that graph the difference there must be in power between the two manufacturers.
Juzh makes mention that Ferrari's power unit strength affords them the ability to run more downforce than others without a speed loss. Make of that what you will.
Nope does work like drag created by DF is exponential. So you really got to get to 250 KPH for it to really make a difference. You can see by the finish line the Alpine is already 2.5 KPH faster. Below 200 KPH DF is just a huge Bonus. It's why HP is not that important at Monaco.

Hoffman900
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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If you are looking for acceleration, you can take the derivative of velocity. That might be revealing.

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Blackout
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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baybars wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:33 am
Traditionally Renault uses very conservative setting on the PU on the beginning of the season. But also they use completely new PU . I think that they need some time for best mapping. I remember that Rossi had said similar things.
Yes according to some Insiders, the Renault engineers are confident and think they are very close to the top engine. They say the PU is just not fully optimized yet regarding mapping etc and will need several gp (top optimize it and to have better comparisons).

GhostF1
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Blackout wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:14 am
baybars wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:33 am
Traditionally Renault uses very conservative setting on the PU on the beginning of the season. But also they use completely new PU . I think that they need some time for best mapping. I remember that Rossi had said similar things.
Yes according to some Insiders, the Renault engineers are confident and think they are very close to the top engine. They say the PU is just not fully optimized yet regarding mapping etc and will need several gp (top optimize it and to have better comparisons).
Would love to see all four manufacturers actually converge. The issue I have with this though is Renault have a history of talking absolute nonsense and bigging themselves up with statements that just aren't true and it's merely for marketing and brand image. This was my favourite :lol:

https://www.grandprix.com/news/renault- ... eboul.html

As it stands, we only have one race to go off which isn't enough but with the info we have... There is a current gap to Ferrari and Honda. After Saudi or to be honest, 3 or 4 more races, we'll have a clearer picture!

AR3-GP
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GhostF1 wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:23 am
Blackout wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:14 am
baybars wrote:
Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:33 am
Traditionally Renault uses very conservative setting on the PU on the beginning of the season. But also they use completely new PU . I think that they need some time for best mapping. I remember that Rossi had said similar things.
Yes according to some Insiders, the Renault engineers are confident and think they are very close to the top engine. They say the PU is just not fully optimized yet regarding mapping etc and will need several gp (top optimize it and to have better comparisons).
Would love to see all four manufacturers actually converge. The issue I have with this though is Renault have a history of talking absolute nonsense and bigging themselves up with statements that just aren't true and it's merely for marketing and brand image. This was my favourite :lol:

https://www.grandprix.com/news/renault- ... eboul.html

As it stands, we only have one race to go off which isn't enough but with the info we have... There is a current gap to Ferrari and Honda. After Saudi or to be honest, 3 or 4 more races, we'll have a clearer picture!
2019 Renault PU was very strong. I'm not sure why you doubt this?

GhostF1
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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AR3-GP wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 5:41 am
GhostF1 wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:23 am
Blackout wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:14 am


Yes according to some Insiders, the Renault engineers are confident and think they are very close to the top engine. They say the PU is just not fully optimized yet regarding mapping etc and will need several gp (top optimize it and to have better comparisons).
Would love to see all four manufacturers actually converge. The issue I have with this though is Renault have a history of talking absolute nonsense and bigging themselves up with statements that just aren't true and it's merely for marketing and brand image. This was my favourite :lol:

https://www.grandprix.com/news/renault- ... eboul.html

As it stands, we only have one race to go off which isn't enough but with the info we have... There is a current gap to Ferrari and Honda. After Saudi or to be honest, 3 or 4 more races, we'll have a clearer picture!
2019 Renault PU was very strong. I'm not sure why you doubt this?
Why I doubt the Renault being class of the field and the Merc bringing up the rear???

... Not in this universe. (don't want to derail this topic either. Was just an example)

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Postmoe
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GhostF1 wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 7:34 am
AR3-GP wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 5:41 am
GhostF1 wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:23 am


Would love to see all four manufacturers actually converge. The issue I have with this though is Renault have a history of talking absolute nonsense and bigging themselves up with statements that just aren't true and it's merely for marketing and brand image. This was my favourite :lol:

https://www.grandprix.com/news/renault- ... eboul.html

As it stands, we only have one race to go off which isn't enough but with the info we have... There is a current gap to Ferrari and Honda. After Saudi or to be honest, 3 or 4 more races, we'll have a clearer picture!
2019 Renault PU was very strong. I'm not sure why you doubt this?
Why I doubt the Renault being class of the field and the Merc bringing up the rear???

... Not in this universe. (don't want to derail this topic either. Was just an example)
Mercedes Ferrari and Renault have been consistently delivering very strong PU's in the last... 30 years?
Each of them having periods of domination of 3-4 years minimum.

I wouldn't doubt the capacity of those manufacturers, it's more than proven.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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GhostF1 wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 7:34 am
AR3-GP wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 5:41 am
GhostF1 wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:23 am


Would love to see all four manufacturers actually converge. The issue I have with this though is Renault have a history of talking absolute nonsense and bigging themselves up with statements that just aren't true and it's merely for marketing and brand image. This was my favourite :lol:

https://www.grandprix.com/news/renault- ... eboul.html

As it stands, we only have one race to go off which isn't enough but with the info we have... There is a current gap to Ferrari and Honda. After Saudi or to be honest, 3 or 4 more races, we'll have a clearer picture!
2019 Renault PU was very strong. I'm not sure why you doubt this?
Why I doubt the Renault being class of the field and the Merc bringing up the rear???

... Not in this universe. (don't want to derail this topic either. Was just an example)
You seem to have misread the article you posted.

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diffuser
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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AR3-GP wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:42 pm
GhostF1 wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 7:34 am
AR3-GP wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 5:41 am


2019 Renault PU was very strong. I'm not sure why you doubt this?
Why I doubt the Renault being class of the field and the Merc bringing up the rear???

... Not in this universe. (don't want to derail this topic either. Was just an example)
You seem to have misread the article you posted.
I Like the part:

But a source at Mercedes has a different view.
"The differences between Honda, Renault and us have become minimal. Only Ferrari stands out," the engineering source said.

And Mercedes' engine boss Andy Cowell said the way the teams measure and compare engine performance - primarily with GPS - is not entirely accurate.

"The engine power is really hard to filter out, especially in the race," he said.


It's something I believe strongly. Don't forget this is back when Ferrari were cheating.

AR3-GP
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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Water pumps for lunch :wink:

What kind of water pump do they have? Why did it disintegrate in car 14 (Alo)?

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Re: Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

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