F1technical.net

Haven't seen a thread for it, so let's make one.

2015 stats:
- lacks ~100 bhp to mercedes (rumors)
- bad driveability (looks like this has improved in the first 3 races)
- bad reliability

Some pics of 2015 engine:

I agree that the engines deserve their own topic!

By the way, the last two pics are from the same side of the engine, the second from the bottom is mirrored.

Renault engine was quite reliable towards the end of last season. Especially for Red Bull, they definitely got on top of it.

I just don't understand how they've got it so wrong. They supposedly concentrated on reliability in winter testing and have gone backwards. So far they're even more unreliable than the start of last season!

They appear to have gained little time over the winter. So, what have those engineers actually been doing....

I can understand Red Bull's frustration but I don't agree with them being so public about it. But Renault really are stuffed.

Well according to http://f1-insider.com/red-bull-renault- ... h-technik/
Renault lacks 80 hp to Merc / Ferrari engines in race trim.
In quali trim another 30 hp down due to a „Free-Load-System“ that both Merc and Ferrari are using.
To be honest, this is more than depressive to Renault.
If you look at Riccardo to manage 7. grid with 110 hp down still proves that the RB11 is on level with Merc and Ferrari when it comes to chassi.
Ferrari gained at least 80 hp during winter by adapting the merc innovated split turbo concept, and to be honest Renault cannot wait to adopt this. Longer pipes from the compressor means pressure drop and because of the higher temp in the conventional turbo even more is lost . With their current design no more power is available only behalf on durability. I also assume due to their concept the engine is running too hot and is suffering from continuous overloading.

toraabe wrote: Ferrari gained at least 80 hp during winter by adapting the merc innovated split turbo concept, .

Ferrari doesn't have Merc innovated split turbo concept. They have Compressor and turbo on one side of the engine and MGU H inside V

toraabe wrote:Ferrari gained at least 80 hp during winter by adapting the merc innovated split turbo concept, and to be honest Renault cannot wait to adopt this. Longer pipes from the compressor means pressure drop and because of the higher temp in the conventional turbo even more is lost . With their current design no more power is available only behalf on durability. I also assume due to their concept the engine is running too hot and is suffering from continuous overloading.

Ferrari does not have the split turbo like Mercedes. Ferrari changed from [turbine-MGUH-compressor] to [turbine-compressor-MGU-H] like last years Renault PU. The split turbo of Mercedes PU is not a silver bullet. Even if Renault changes it to split turbo it won't give them 80HP.

What is a „Free-Load-System“?

Before the Chineese GP:

Traffin:

Performance was likewise an improvement in Malaysia, although we did keep some in reserve to safeguard reliability.

Now we are getting more confident in this area we can afford to be more aggressive and we should see better results on the straights, with a higher top speed.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/renau ... &q=renault

After the GP:

Abiteboul:

We knew we had this reliability risk above our heads," he told reporters in China.

Obviously it struck today, not the best day.

We knew it was a weakness so there was a plan in place. We need to make sure the plan is good enough for the size of the issues we had today, and whether it can be addressed fairly quickly.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118479



Not wanting to start a rant or anything, just wondering were things went wrong. Anything known about which parts failed?

There are claims that the 2015 PU has a lot more power - can this be seen in lap times?

Silent Storm wrote:

toraabe wrote:Ferrari gained at least 80 hp during winter by adapting the merc innovated split turbo concept, and to be honest Renault cannot wait to adopt this. Longer pipes from the compressor means pressure drop and because of the higher temp in the conventional turbo even more is lost . With their current design no more power is available only behalf on durability. I also assume due to their concept the engine is running too hot and is suffering from continuous overloading.

Ferrari does not have the split turbo like Mercedes. Ferrari changed from [turbine-MGUH-compressor] to [turbine-compressor-MGU-H] like last years Renault PU. The split turbo of Mercedes PU is not a silver bullet. Even if Renault changes it to split turbo it won't give them 80HP.

OK that was new to me.. well.. But if you look at the pipe from the compressor to the intercooler it seems not to be isolated.
The exhaust pipes direct under will generate a lot of heat so why not heatshield between ?

They have more power but not enough control over it.

toraabe wrote:Well according to http://f1-insider.com/red-bull-renault- ... h-technik/
Renault lacks 80 hp to Merc / Ferrari engines in race trim.
In quali trim another 30 hp down due to a „Free-Load-System“ that both Merc and Ferrari are using.
To be honest, this is more than depressive to Renault.
If you look at Riccardo to manage 7. grid with 110 hp down still proves that the RB11 is on level with Merc and Ferrari when it comes to chassi.
Ferrari gained at least 80 hp during winter by adapting the merc innovated split turbo concept, and to be honest Renault cannot wait to adopt this. Longer pipes from the compressor means pressure drop and because of the higher temp in the conventional turbo even more is lost . With their current design no more power is available only behalf on durability. I also assume due to their concept the engine is running too hot and is suffering from continuous overloading.

Red bull were made to look very ordinary by Torro Rosso, cant support that RB11 is equal chassis with Merc and Ferrari.

Riccardo may have been 7th on the grid but a long long way from pole.

PlatinumZealot wrote:They have more power but not enough control over it.

It also think this is their actual problem. German media had reports that the engine shows 40 bhp more power on dyno then in car. And they claim it is a big software issue. This imho makes sense, because otherwise they would have gained nearly nothing over the winter from all the hardware upgrades.

hurril wrote:What is a „Free-Load-System“?

It is a reference to the control scheme used by Ferrari in late 2013 data, derived by ... and mentioned in the lectures by Prof Linbeer ,found and presented originally ...by Gordon McCabe.

http://mccabism.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/ ... raris.html

Taken as read.... It takes 60kW to drive the compressor , so if you drive the compressor with battery energy and run the ICE with the wastegate open you get a net gain of 20kW.



Rob