2017-2020 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

[djos]

Those pics all show a shorter wheelbase, is that now limited by the rules or is that an assumption being made by the artists?

[Mansell89]

In 2014, 2015, and 2016, F1 has been described as a 'power-driven' Formula.

With these aero changes in 2017- how much does the see-saw come back towards aero influence for lap time?

Does it alleviate the pressure from the likes of Honda and Renault, who have been on the back foot behind Mercedes? Or does the engine still hold a major advantage? Or thirdly- does it further the advantage in that the extra speed exaggerates those engine power differences?

[Paul]

It was 'power-driven' only because of big differences in power unit performance despite rather restrictive regulations. So if there are big differences next season because of some teams having really bad and some teams really good aero concepts, we might see 'aero-driven' era. With no token system for aero and no limitations on number of components used during the season, however, it should be easier at least for rich teams to converge.

[Andres125sx]

In 2014, 2015, and 2016, F1 has been described as a 'power-driven' Formula.

With these aero changes in 2017- how much does the see-saw come back towards aero influence for lap time?

Does it alleviate the pressure from the likes of Honda and Renault, who have been on the back foot behind Mercedes? Or does the engine still hold a major advantage? Or thirdly- does it further the advantage in that the extra speed exaggerates those engine power differences?

I think nobody will now until first GP in 2017, as there are new aero rules, but also the PU development restriction is gone, so depending on how many things PU manufacturers are not doing this season because of tokens restriction we could see a huge jump ahead on some PU manufacturers (what I expect from Honda), or not so much in some others (Ferrari or Renault maybe). I´d like to put Mercedes in the second group considering they have the most advanced PU so they have less to develop, but the technology is still pretty new and they´re doing an awesome job since day 1, so it wouldn´t surprise me if they also make a big step forward

I hope they don´t tough, I miss those seasons where more than one team fought for the title

[godlameroso]

I think it's going to balance out, Mercedes will still be strong, Red Bull as well, the teams that stand to make the biggest gains are Renault and McLaren, Ferrari is always up there, whether they'll have enough to fight for wins who knows. They may start off on the back foot like in 09, but Ferrari seems to have seesaw years. 09 was mediocre, 10 was good, 11 less so, 12 more so, and so forth, so we'll see. The smaller teams may do well during the first half of the year, because I think the pilots will make a difference the first few races.

[Gaz.]

In 2014, 2015, and 2016, F1 has been described as a 'power-driven' Formula.

With these aero changes in 2017- how much does the see-saw come back towards aero influence for lap time?

Does it alleviate the pressure from the likes of Honda and Renault, who have been on the back foot behind Mercedes? Or does the engine still hold a major advantage? Or thirdly- does it further the advantage in that the extra speed exaggerates those engine power differences?

It's an interesting question- drag is going to increase considerably so the teams will strive to find a balance between downforce and lots of drag, not that I am saying that it is one or the other, but lots of drag needs lots of power to overcome it, hence Mercedes using barn door wings vs RBR using skinny wings in 2014 when there was a considerable gap in PU performance. Based on nothing more than a finger in the air I cannot help but feel this will be exaggerated next year.

[Jolle]

In 2014, 2015, and 2016, F1 has been described as a 'power-driven' Formula.

With these aero changes in 2017- how much does the see-saw come back towards aero influence for lap time?

Does it alleviate the pressure from the likes of Honda and Renault, who have been on the back foot behind Mercedes? Or does the engine still hold a major advantage? Or thirdly- does it further the advantage in that the extra speed exaggerates those engine power differences?

It's an interesting question- drag is going to increase considerably so the teams will strive to find a balance between downforce and lots of drag, not that I am saying that it is one or the other, but lots of drag needs lots of power to overcome it, hence Mercedes using barn door wings vs RBR using skinny wings in 2014 when there was a considerable gap in PU performance. Based on nothing more than a finger in the air I cannot help but feel this will be exaggerated next year.

Hmmm, I think it will be less actually. The target is always to have the maximum amount of downforce with the least amount of drag. With the new rules, with the new diffuser, the percentage of drag for a certain amount of downforce may acutely go down (but with the steep rise of downforce will go up in real numbers).

Plus, apart from the few years of the frozen v8 years, F1 always been an engine driven formula. Wether it was a cosworth dfv, Honda V6 or Renault V10. Without the right engine of the period it would be difficult to win.

[Gaz.]

Have you considered the extra width of the tyres and increased track?

[Jolle]

Have you considered the extra width of the tyres and increased track?

Yes. There will be an large increase in drag, but also a large increase in downforce (wider wings, wider floor due to the increased track) but the big difference is the longer, higher diffuser which gives "free" downforce without a huge extra increase in drag. I think it might be possible with the 2017 cars to increase downforce more then it costs drag.

[FPV GTHO]

There's going to be extra drag coming off the front in order to match that "free" downforce from the diffuser.

[PhillipM]

The front wing isn't very draggy in the scheme of things though, sometimes your overall drag/lift ratio comes down with more front wing as it lofts air over the tyres and gives you stronger vortices to control the underfloor with.

[godlameroso]

As it is teams can generate much more downforce from the front wing than the rear wing. Although the extra rubber may make the front wing a bit less efficient.

[skoop]

At http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 11039.html you will find an article about the 2017 changes.

Key notes:
- longer cars will have advatages, because of 5kg more fuel
- 25% more downforce at the beginning at the saison, 35% at the end
- on a straight where the cars go 330km/h cars will be 20 km/h slower
- Corner speeds will increase dramatically, at Hungary lap times will be 4s quicker
-Brakeforces won't be as high as this year, because of slower straight line Speed
-Brake cooling will not decrease at the beginning, because it is unknown how much the gain from the tires will be. This gives the Teams testing the 17 tires a big Advantage
- suspensions need to be strenghtened
-cars will look alike
- design of the rear end is uncertain and difficult
- rake depends on constructor, FI won't change rake
- Y250 vortices still a concern
- balancing will be difficult, because the rear generates more df then the front
- getting the air flow to the back will be key, he expects to see different solutions here
- durability of the tires a big questionmark
- drs Advantage will be the same or more
- problems following another car will depend on tires
- almost no parts from the 16 car will make it to the 17 car

Sorry for my bad english, I'm at work and don't have that much time. The interview was with Andy green

[Andres125sx]

-Brakeforces won't be as high as this year, because of slower straight line Speed

With 25% more downforce and similary increased mechanical grip brake forces won´t be as high?

I know if topspeed is lower brake pressuse must be lower as higher speeds provide more DF so they can brake faster, but even so overall grip difference will be massive, and top speed difference will be specially noticeable on long straights, but at any other medium or short straight brake forces should be higher I think.

And even on tracks like Monza they will continue reducing drag as much as possible even if that reduces DF, and that means they might end up with similar DF and drag (even flatter wings), but wider tires will still improve braking and increase braking forces. That´s assuming they can go with similar DF and drag to current cars for Monza stile tracks wich I´m not sure if correct as the car and wings are wider

[skoop]

-Brakeforces won't be as high as this year, because of slower straight line Speed

With 25% more downforce and similary increased mechanical grip brake forces won´t be as high?

I know if topspeed is lower brake pressuse must be lower as higher speeds provide more DF so they can brake faster, but even so overall grip difference will be massive, and top speed difference will be specially noticeable on long straights, but at any other medium or short straight brake forces should be higher I think.

And even on tracks like Monza they will continue reducing drag as much as possible even if that reduces DF, and that means they might end up with similar DF and drag (even flatter wings), but wider tires will still improve braking and increase braking forces. That´s assuming they can go with similar DF and drag to current cars for Monza stile tracks wich I´m not sure if correct as the car and wings are wider

Andy Greens argument is, that you won't brake as hard, because you go quicker in the Corners. This and the slower top speeds will lead - according to him - to reduced brake forces.