F1technical.net

Even the dtm cars which are based on road cars have very good downforce. But the best supersport road cars like laferrari or 918 have quite little downforce. What is limiting them? I dont think it would be about their concerns of drag because mclaren p1 is already using a drs system.


Thank you very much

DTM have nothing in common with road cars.

Cold Fussion wrote:DTM have nothing in common with road cars.

You are correct. Doesnt really answer my question though

In the huge peak-downforce days, F1 cars generated something like 1,700kg of downforce at around 280kph and weighed 605kg minimum. That's 2.8kg of downforce for every 1kg of weight at speeds rarely attained by any car. Equivalent downforce for a 1,500kg car, which is very light by modern standards, would be over 4,200kg. To create anywhere near that much downforce at usable speeds would necessitate an aero package that makes even this...



...look tame; the wings would be ginormous. To overcome the drag created by those monsters would require an engine with at least 1,500bhp (assuming a frontal area of 2m^2 and a CdA of 1.1, both only generalized guesses on my part that are likely conservative).

It's just unreasonable by any measure.

What good would it do to have heaps of downforce on a road car?

Fuel economy is king these days anyway. Design for low drag. Usually means low downforce as well

Adding to what has already been said, I believe on road cars mechanical grip is far more important than downforce. On the aero side the focus should be on drag and heat management.

Doesn't downforce need allot of track experience from the driver?

But is comes down to choice basicly. Design is also important on a road car.

For the average person drag is more important than downforce, it brings fuel economy and in 99% of the roads in the world you are not allowed to drive at speeds which downforce matter, so big wings are off.

Tunnels, a front diffuser, and stuff like that are tipically off as well because housing the passengers comfortably takes precedence.

And you won't have huge levels of downforce from the floor because of the necessary ride height for a road car.

One problem with downforce is that if you lose it for any reason, the car is going straight to the scene of the accident because the loss of control is instantaneous. On a road car, that means hitting trees, lamp posts or other road users at very high speed; the high speed is necessary to make the downforce in the first place of course. Downforce also requires tyres that are capable of supporting the loads as well as dealing with the hugely variable road surfaces we find on modern roads. Suspension would also need to be able to support the loads whilst providing both ride comfort and aero control to ensure stability.

Modern supercars generate downforce but it is more to do with countering the lift inherent in their shapes and thus gives stability at speed. Cars like the P1 only really generate their (relatively) high downforce levels when in dedicated track mode. This means any accidents occur in a safe environment too.

Jersey Tom wrote:What good would it do to have heaps of downforce on a road car?

Fuel economy is king these days anyway. Design for low drag. Usually means low downforce as well

I am not talking about normal roadcars, but hypercars like laferrari, 918, p1 etc.
Why dont they have high levels downforce? Not just against f1 but other racing series as well

Is it possibly to do with our fixation on 0-60, 0-100 and top speed times that will all be hurt by a big downforce set-up that the marketing departments rely on to sell the cars? Is it also that maybe your average supercar owner would land up in serious trouble with a lot of power and downforce when seeking the limits of the car?

garygph wrote:Is it possibly to do with our fixation on 0-60, 0-100 and top speed times that will all be hurt by a big downforce set-up that the marketing departments rely on to sell the cars? Is it also that maybe your average supercar owner would land up in serious trouble with a lot of power and downforce when seeking the limits of the car?

It wouldnt hurt those times if you use drs. And for it being dagerous, it already is, thats why they have electronics

What do you think about this, the caparo T1?



It generates a lot of downforce, it is very light and is roadlegal.

Nuvolari_the_legend wrote:What do you think about this, the caparo T1?

http://famebiography.net/wp-content/upl ... 00x225.jpg

It generates a lot of downforce, it is very light and is roadlegal.

It is a good idea that hasnt worked in real life

First off, I think you're probably underestimating the DF of the latest hypercars. Possibly because their DF levels are given at a lower speed than people normally quote for racecars, combined with the quadratic relationship between speed and downforce.

The latest hypercars make as much downforce as a gt racer from 5 yrs ago.