Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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_cerber1
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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11hp :(

hurril
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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_cerber1 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 9:37 am
11hp :(
I'm just baffled they're able to take measurements to that precision.

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etusch
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I can not understand those power rating comments that says "Ferrari is most powerfull" from winter testings to now.
At last race Ferrari were not even able to attacking Vers' car with tow + drs. Perez got an engine issue which cost him 30 hp according to team and still he was performing level of Sainz and could attack him. Redbull was faster with full load of fuel while they also have car weight issue while redbull has longer ratios compared to ferrari's shorter ones.

AR3-GP
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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They are only talking about peak numbers. There's much more to a PU than the peak power output.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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According to Andrew Green, all the engines are close and the Mercedes is not lacking in power.
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AR3-GP
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 2:40 pm
According to Andrew Green, all the engines are close and the Mercedes is not lacking in power.
That's promising then. Atleast Ferrari is not miles off in the distance as many including myself have feared.

LM10
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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etusch wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 1:11 pm
I can not understand those power rating comments that says "Ferrari is most powerfull" from winter testings to now.
At last race Ferrari were not even able to attacking Vers' car with tow + drs. Perez got an engine issue which cost him 30 hp according to team and still he was performing level of Sainz and could attack him. Redbull was faster with full load of fuel while they also have car weight issue while redbull has longer ratios compared to ferrari's shorter ones.
So everyone is wrong, but your simple interpretation based on straight line speed in a single race is right?

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etusch
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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LM10 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 2:55 pm
etusch wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 1:11 pm
I can not understand those power rating comments that says "Ferrari is most powerfull" from winter testings to now.
At last race Ferrari were not even able to attacking Vers' car with tow + drs. Perez got an engine issue which cost him 30 hp according to team and still he was performing level of Sainz and could attack him. Redbull was faster with full load of fuel while they also have car weight issue while redbull has longer ratios compared to ferrari's shorter ones.
So everyone is wrong, but your simple interpretation based on straight line speed in a single race is right?
If you are watching F1, if I were speak only last race, you should not say this. At bahrain Vers was catching and overtaking Lec from long away. Maybe bigger than 1 sec gap.
If straight line speed ( which is not my only base ) not a indicator for engine power, which is the indicator of that. Turning speed ?
Last edited by etusch on Thu May 19, 2022 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dialtone
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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etusch wrote:
LM10 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 2:55 pm
etusch wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 1:11 pm
I can not understand those power rating comments that says "Ferrari is most powerfull" from winter testings to now.
At last race Ferrari were not even able to attacking Vers' car with tow + drs. Perez got an engine issue which cost him 30 hp according to team and still he was performing level of Sainz and could attack him. Redbull was faster with full load of fuel while they also have car weight issue while redbull has longer ratios compared to ferrari's shorter ones.
So everyone is wrong, but your simple interpretation based on straight line speed in a single race is right?
If you are watching F1, if I were speak only last race, you should not say this. At bahrain Vers was catching and overtaking Lec from long away. Maybe bigger than 1 sec gap.
We’re definitely not watching the same races :).

Image

Ver v Lec over 47 laps with no drs on back straight, average speed in Miami.

In Bahrain Ferrari had high DF AND Lec was braking early to get DRS before the second straight.

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etusch
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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dialtone wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 3:12 pm
etusch wrote:
LM10 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 2:55 pm


So everyone is wrong, but your simple interpretation based on straight line speed in a single race is right?
If you are watching F1, if I were speak only last race, you should not say this. At bahrain Vers was catching and overtaking Lec from long away. Maybe bigger than 1 sec gap.
We’re definitely not watching the same races :).

https://f1pace.com/p/2022-miami-gp-stra ... box_2.webp

Ver v Lec over 47 laps with no drs on back straight, average speed in Miami.

In Bahrain Ferrari had high DF AND Lec was braking early to get DRS before the second straight.
At your datasheet was Lec behind Vers? did lec taking tow from him ? Or that was same for whole race ? Vers just waited and when needed easily overtook him. Maybe "avarage" is not a good data for what we are discussing.
Whatever it is; according to your approach how can you explain why lec couldn't attacked to vers while he had same straight line speed?

At bahrain Lec braking earlier to take DRS but why. If Vers were not able to overtake him if he didn't brake earlier ? Lec were overtaken anyway. He could reovertake by that but he could it hardly and everybody surprised how easy Vers overtaken. Redbull's tyre management and brake cooling issues prevent him to go harder. Otherwise that race also was a win for Verstappen.

dialtone
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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etusch wrote:
dialtone wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 3:12 pm
etusch wrote: If you are watching F1, if I were speak only last race, you should not say this. At bahrain Vers was catching and overtaking Lec from long away. Maybe bigger than 1 sec gap.
We’re definitely not watching the same races :).

https://f1pace.com/p/2022-miami-gp-stra ... box_2.webp

Ver v Lec over 47 laps with no drs on back straight, average speed in Miami.

In Bahrain Ferrari had high DF AND Lec was braking early to get DRS before the second straight.
At your datasheet was Lec behind Vers? did lec taking tow from him ? Or that was same for whole race ? Vers just waited and when needed easily overtook him. Maybe "avarage" is not a good data for what we are discussing.

At bahrain Lec braking earlier to take DRS but why. If Vers were not able to overtake him if he didn't brake earlier ? Lec were overtaken anyway. He could reovertake by that but he could it hardly and everybody surprised how easy Vers overtaken. Redbull's tyre management and brake cooling issues prevent him to go harder. Otherwise that race also was a win for Verstappen.
This is not about merc engine so we should discuss somewhere else. These cars have barely any tow beyond 1.5s and zero after 2s. Out of 47 laps Lec was behind Ver with no drs for maybe 5 laps. Australia was the same regarding top speed and so was Imola. After Jeddah cars didn’t run wildly different DF packages any more. If we want to continue we should do in a different thread, but I’m good here.


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LM10
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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etusch wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 3:08 pm
LM10 wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 2:55 pm
etusch wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 1:11 pm
I can not understand those power rating comments that says "Ferrari is most powerfull" from winter testings to now.
At last race Ferrari were not even able to attacking Vers' car with tow + drs. Perez got an engine issue which cost him 30 hp according to team and still he was performing level of Sainz and could attack him. Redbull was faster with full load of fuel while they also have car weight issue while redbull has longer ratios compared to ferrari's shorter ones.
So everyone is wrong, but your simple interpretation based on straight line speed in a single race is right?
If you are watching F1, if I were speak only last race, you should not say this. At bahrain Vers was catching and overtaking Lec from long away. Maybe bigger than 1 sec gap.
If straight line speed ( which is not my only base ) not a indicator for engine power, which is the indicator of that. Turning speed ?
Low to mid speed acceleration, when traction does not play a role anymore, is the biggest indicator for engine power.

gruntguru
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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AR3-GP wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 1:13 pm
They are only talking about peak numbers. There's much more to a PU than the peak power output.
Not a lot. All the engines have a very flat power curve over the rpm range needed.

Response and inertia would be very similar too.
je suis charlie

gruntguru
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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dialtone wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 3:12 pm
https://f1pace.com/p/2022-miami-gp-stra ... box_2.webp

Ver v Lec over 47 laps with no drs on back straight, average speed in Miami.

In Bahrain Ferrari had high DF AND Lec was braking early to get DRS before the second straight.
Wow - that graph shows a 4.7 km/hr difference in corner exit speed - that is huge.
je suis charlie

dialtone
dialtone
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Re: Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

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gruntguru wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 12:46 am
dialtone wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 3:12 pm
https://f1pace.com/p/2022-miami-gp-stra ... box_2.webp

Ver v Lec over 47 laps with no drs on back straight, average speed in Miami.

In Bahrain Ferrari had high DF AND Lec was braking early to get DRS before the second straight.
Wow - that graph shows a 4.7 km/hr difference in corner exit speed - that is huge.
yeah, out of T16 RBR had a massive advantage in traction thanks to better tyre management, that's how RBR manages to pass.