2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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Jolle
Jolle
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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sosic2121 wrote:
Just_a_fan wrote:
sosic2121 wrote: He really was something special. You have to back to the beginning of his career to understand how good he was.
Senna believed Benetton was cheating/having traction control, since he couldn't understand how could he be so quick.
Benetton did have traction control. The entire paddock knew it. The FIA looked at the car and found traction control code which Benetton claimed was legacy code from testing but wasn't raced. FIA couldn't prove illegality so Benetton got away with it.

Schuie was bloody good, it must be said, but his results record needs to be seen in light of the politics of the day. Bespoke tyres, unlimited testing, Number 1 status etc. He still had to turn that in to results, of course, but the lack of a challenger on the other side of the garage made that a lot easier.

Would Schuie have done so well with Senna, Prost, Alonso, Vettel or Hamilton in the other car? Nope.
none of them would be equal to Schumacher in a same car. also, he won more than one championship with inferior car.
I admire your adoration of Schumacher. But, just for fun, I would suggest you to look for instance at Prost's career, his results, his cars and his teammates.

sosic2121
sosic2121
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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Yes, prost was a great driver.
I would say he's underrated especially when compared with senna.
I'm actually surprised that you mentioned prost.
I admire Schumacher because he turned Ferrari into a winning team. He was a great strategist, great leader, he understood the car and had supernatural ability to drive at and beyond the limit.

I didn't like his tendency to crash into next car during the deciding race, just like I didn't like that when senna and prost were doing it and Nico and Lewis are doing it.

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Multi21
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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ChrisDanger wrote:
SectorOne wrote:Just a quick question i´m too lazy to figure out myself.

Schumi has the most poles at 7 around here according to F1 twitter, with Hamilton being equally impressive in terms of wins i was just curious how many poles he had.
4 times: 2008, 2012, 2013, 2015
Lewis also took pole in 2007 after ALO was demoted for blocking in the pit lane so that's 5.

ChrisDanger
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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Multi21 wrote:Lewis also took pole in 2007 after ALO was demoted for blocking in the pit lane so that's 5.
I went according to the results of qualifying, in which Alonso was fastest. I'm not sure what the statisticians go by. But I'd think it's important in this case that Hamilton was not the fastest in the session, although he lined up in P1 due to extraneous causes.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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Weather update: 40% chance of rain on Sunday, Friday and Saturday should be dry. Qualifying record anyone? Maybe someone gets into the 17's? Considering downforce levels are now pretty much equal to 2012 levels but we have much more powerful engines, and softer compounds. In 2013 Hamilton did a 1:19.388, I don't think they can go below 18's but we'll see.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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Arguable whether downforce levels are near to 2012. Might have to ask Lowe or Newey. But the tyres and engines are definitely faster.
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Juzh
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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PlatinumZealot wrote:Arguable whether downforce levels are near to 2012. Might have to ask Lowe or Newey. But the tyres and engines are definitely faster.
Very difficult to compare actual downforce levels. Too many factors affecting this, but I'd say current cars are most likely above 2012, which was actually a very weak year in terms of downforce and car pace.

For example, vettel cornered copse in 2010 flat out at ~290 kmh and hamilton in 2016 cornered at around 260. But the cars are 100+ kg heavier so the downforce required to corner at 260 in 2016 could actually be higher than in 2010 at 290.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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PlatinumZealot wrote:Arguable whether downforce levels are near to 2012. Might have to ask Lowe or Newey. But the tyres and engines are definitely faster.
Barcelona is heavily influenced by aero performance, pole lap was roughly the same as Pastor Maldonado's pole lap in 2012. Mind you he did it with less power, but on the 'same' tire compound. MAL 2012 1:22.105 fastest race lap 1:27.906. HAM 2016 1:22.000 ROS 2016 1:22.280 fastest representative race lap VET 1:27.974, maybe the Mercs were half a second faster.
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Juzh
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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godlameroso wrote:
PlatinumZealot wrote:Arguable whether downforce levels are near to 2012. Might have to ask Lowe or Newey. But the tyres and engines are definitely faster.
Barcelona is heavily influenced by aero performance, pole lap was roughly the same as Pastor Maldonado's pole lap in 2012. Mind you he did it with less power, but on the 'same' tire compound. MAL 2012 1:22.105 fastest race lap 1:27.906. HAM 2016 1:22.000 ROS 2016 1:22.280 fastest representative race lap VET 1:27.974, maybe the Mercs were half a second faster.
-80 kg for 2012 car.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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+~220 ft/lbs of torque and ~150 extra HP should make up for that.
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Vasconia
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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Jolle wrote:
I admire your adoration of Schumacher. But, just for fun, I would suggest you to look for instance at Prost's career, his results, his cars and his teammates.
Taking with some historical perspective one could say that Prost was the biggest because of the rivals he had. But people keep saying how great was Senna and at the time underestimating Prost´s qualities.

And I am a huge MSC fan but I think people have been quite unfair with Prost.

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Vasconia
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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SectorOne wrote:
ChrisDanger wrote:
SectorOne wrote:Just a quick question i´m too lazy to figure out myself.

Schumi has the most poles at 7 around here according to F1 twitter, with Hamilton being equally impressive in terms of wins i was just curious how many poles he had.
4 times: 2008, 2012, 2013, 2015
So basically Schumi was pretty lethal around here regardless of fuel load. thanks.
This is one of the weakest tracks for Shumi. With the awesome exception of 1998 with his famous last stint.

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Vasconia
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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godlameroso wrote:Weather update: 40% chance of rain on Sunday, Friday and Saturday should be dry. Qualifying record anyone? Maybe someone gets into the 17's? Considering downforce levels are now pretty much equal to 2012 levels but we have much more powerful engines, and softer compounds. In 2013 Hamilton did a 1:19.388, I don't think they can go below 18's but we'll see.
If it rains Alonso could have a great chance to do something big.

I can imagine Rosberg praying for a sunny day. :D

But some showers were be welcome if the race is boring.

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jericho
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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I really hope the Red Bulls can fight for the top spot. This track should be good for their car, so maybe it will be another none Mercedes victory.

Jolle
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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Vasconia wrote:
Jolle wrote:
I admire your adoration of Schumacher. But, just for fun, I would suggest you to look for instance at Prost's career, his results, his cars and his teammates.
Taking with some historical perspective one could say that Prost was the biggest because of the rivals he had. But people keep saying how great was Senna and at the time underestimating Prost´s qualities.

And I am a huge MSC fan but I think people have been quite unfair with Prost.
I mentioned Prost to show the difference in eras. I could of mentioned Piquet.
With Prost, if he wasn't partnered with WC all of the time at the furious dominant McLaren, he would have been champion from 1984 up to 1991.

But then Senna happened. Car control not seen since Jim Clark.

Schumacher had it reletive easy. The great of the era before just left or died, no dominant drivers at the beginning of his career and that gave him together with Brawn the opertunaty to make one of the most dominant teams like McLaren the years before.
If Brawn had the same way with Schumacher as Dennis did with Prost, he would have been partnered with Alonso and/or Hakkinen instead of Barichello.
Unlike Piquet, Prost and Lauda, Schumacher never had anything to fear from within the team. Not from managers or drivers. That's not a point of criticism but one of things why he was so successful. Building/being part of a team with one single focus.