2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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iotar__
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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turbof1 wrote:
hollus wrote:@Turbo
No wish of starting a ying-yang and even less with a moderator, but the rule does not say that only one move is allowed. It says that you are allowed one move (Max ducks to the right); that then you are allowed to return to the racing line (Max ducks to the left) and that then you are allowed to take the corner (Max turns right again, no one calling foul here).
Max waited for the very last meter to do it all, did it with eyes on his mirrors and left Raikonnen no where to go... except that Raikkonen lost his left end plate in a right-handed corner, which doesn´t quite fit with Max making an ill timed move to his left, which is what the complaints seem to be about. Raikkonen chose to try the inside line again after all, and probably everyone would have made the same call, but it was his call to put the car there in the first place.

The kid played dirty... kind of, maybe, but within the rules to the last comma. IMHO.
Yes, that's correct what you said. Only Max did not return to the racing line. He was on the inside at the entry of the corner. So that's the inside line, but not the racing line. Atleast that's my view (and for the record that's the view of a member; I'm nobody's superior in a discussion content-wise.).
More importantly just because one move (plus coming back to r. line) is allowed = 2 it doesn't mean that any 2 moves will always be considered clean defending in some robotic I can count to two fashion mentioned above. Where those moves happen (straight/mid corner), where is the other car, can it react, is there a collision, how quickly they happen, speed/speed changes, space = all the elements present here that amount to chaotic and amateurish blocking that should have been penalised.

Hard within limits was Canada, this one was not, not in the slightest but rather childish driving not for the first time from Verstappen (long list: Monaco x 2, Australia, Hungary '15, Abu Dhabi, Spa).

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Phil
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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I'm with Turbo. Those were two moves by Max. If you want to cover the inside, fair enough, do that but then you stay on that line and cover the apex. You are IMO free to move back to the racing line for a better corner entry and better exit IF the car behind you isnt there attempting a maneuver around the outside. Cant have it both ways and hence why the "only one defensive move is allowed" rule.

I'm amazed this wasnt investigated, it did lead to a collision though without impact for wither driver. I would have liked to see a formal investigation and perhaps a reprimand or a warning issued during the race as is typically done. But nothing.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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hollus
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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But Raikonnen wasn't "there". Think of what part of his car he lost as proof, impossible if he was "already there" in the outside.
Just to be clear, I think what Max did was really dangerous and against the spirit of the rule, but not agains the letter of the rule, hence not even an investigation. In fact, Ferrari did not protest, did it?

Edit: after seing the video below, it is clear that I had a weird mirror image of that corner in my head, so outside becomes inside, right becomes left, and maybe one shouldn't take what I wrote too seriously. ;-) (not that one should anyways).
Last edited by hollus on Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
I would like to see a paleontologist.

Restomaniac
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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komninosm wrote:
GrandAxe wrote:What about Lewis driving so slowly and getting on the radio to complain that he was struggling for pace until Merc warned him to either pick up speed or they would pit Nico first? Next lap, Lewis was a full second faster.

Could that have engine saving, pushing Nico into Ricciardo, or an attempt to destroy Nico's tyres?
Yeah very strange race indeed. Hamilton's pace was so weird at one point I thought maybe he has a problem like Baku. Or there's a new no passing (unless we say so) team order and he wanted to see how far he could push the limits on that. Even when Hamilton went off the road once and Rosberg came right behind him (from a couple of seconds back) he had him back to 1.2 seconds in like 3 turns. Did either of them say anything about this or only PR statements?
Hamilton admitted he was turning his engine up and down throughout the race as some components of it were at number 5 for the season.

I can see him nursing them through Germany and then at Spa taking a last place start and ending up with tons of spare parts going forward as others on here have surmised.

I will say it just shows how much he actually he had in hand over Rosberg if he could hamstring himself when he felt like it and then at the drop of a hat just pull a gap when wanted too.
Last edited by Restomaniac on Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

jurinius
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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komninosm wrote:
GrandAxe wrote:What about Lewis driving so slowly and getting on the radio to complain that he was struggling for pace until Merc warned him to either pick up speed or they would pit Nico first? Next lap, Lewis was a full second faster.

Could that have engine saving, pushing Nico into Ricciardo, or an attempt to destroy Nico's tyres?
Yeah very strange race indeed. Hamilton's pace was so weird at one point I thought maybe he has a problem like Baku. Or there's a new no passing (unless we say so) team order and he wanted to see how far he could push the limits on that. Even when Hamilton went off the road once and Rosberg came right behind him (from a couple of seconds back) he had him back to 1.2 seconds in like 3 turns. Did either of them say anything about this or only PR statements?
Hamilton was controlling his pace and to keep an advantage on tyres. Toto said it himself :

"Toto Wolff thinks Lewis Hamilton may have "over-managed" his Hungarian Grand Prix win, but only because Mercedes warned its drivers to be extra cautious with tyres."

"He had everything under control, he knew that Nico was behind him and didn't realise that the [traffic] train was approaching fast and that there was a different strategy behind him, so I guess he didn't have the complete picture and for him it looked OK. That's why he just took it easy."

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/171 ... s-hamilton

So it is simple again, when you have fire on your .... You should pick up your pace as the driver under threat, no Nico was also in control mode waiting Hamilton to make a mistake or kill his tyres then jump over him as quick as possible. Just remember this "Hungarian GP: 'I'm driving like a grandma!' - ...
“And suddenly I realized that I was no longer driving the car consciously. I was driving it by a kind of instinct, only I was in a different dimension.”
― Ayrton Senna

jurinius
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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Phil wrote:I'm with Turbo. Those were two moves by Max. If you want to cover the inside, fair enough, do that but then you stay on that line and cover the apex. You are IMO free to move back to the racing line for a better corner entry and better exit IF the car behind you isnt there attempting a maneuver around the outside. Cant have it both ways and hence why the "only one defensive move is allowed" rule.

I'm amazed this wasnt investigated, it did lead to a collision though without impact for wither driver. I would have liked to see a formal investigation and perhaps a reprimand or a warning issued during the race as is typically done. But nothing.
Maybe it is just because Ves didn't have any issue after that, a puncture and probably a retirement and he wouldn't be smiling after his race.
“And suddenly I realized that I was no longer driving the car consciously. I was driving it by a kind of instinct, only I was in a different dimension.”
― Ayrton Senna

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dans79
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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jurinius wrote: Just remember this "Hungarian GP: 'I'm driving like a grandma!' - ...
Please......

If he was so fast he would have just passed Ric!
191 103 103 7

mrluke
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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RedNEO wrote:
mrluke wrote:
RedNEO wrote:
You realize both McLarens didn't finish there laps and would have both jumped him right?

Also looks like Ferrari are behind according to your analysis, hell one of them didn't even make q3.
Mclaren chassis is about as good as STR and so is their PU.

The Mclaren PR / Fan boys seem to think their chassis is as good as RBR and they are dragging around a Honda boat anchor PU. Which is rubbish. Both Mclaren and Honda have work to do.
Show me quotes of of them saying the chassis is as good as the redbull or it didn't happen.
http://www.grandprix247.com/2016/05/24/ ... n-ferrari/
“Now it is Mercedes, Red Bull, us, and then Ferrari, Toro Rosso and Williams. They are clearly behind today,” ventured Boullier.

The first 3 pages of google are about the Barcelona / Monaco claims. Im sure there was talk around silverstone last year of Mclaren being 2nd only to Mercedes "in the corners"

Moose
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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dans79 wrote:
jurinius wrote: Just remember this "Hungarian GP: 'I'm driving like a grandma!' - ...
Please......

If he was so fast he would have just passed Ric!
You saw how "easy" it was for Hamilton to pass Gutierez, even when a second a lap faster, while managing tyres and engine, under blue flags... You don't "Just pass" someone at the Hungaroring.

Dazed1
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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munudeges wrote:
Diesel wrote:Massively worrying precedent set this weekend after the stewards didn't penalise Rosberg for speeding through double waved yellows. Jules Bianchi's death can be mostly attributed to not slowing down for yellow flags. Very worrying.
Applying all these silly rules the FIA have come up with equally in every situation?! Surely not? :shock:
My new response to bitching about F1: At least it's not NASCAR. :lol:
What a farce the ending of the Brickyard became.

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RedNEO
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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mrluke wrote:
RedNEO wrote:
mrluke wrote:
Mclaren chassis is about as good as STR and so is their PU.

The Mclaren PR / Fan boys seem to think their chassis is as good as RBR and they are dragging around a Honda boat anchor PU. Which is rubbish. Both Mclaren and Honda have work to do.
Show me quotes of of them saying the chassis is as good as the redbull or it didn't happen.
http://www.grandprix247.com/2016/05/24/ ... n-ferrari/
“Now it is Mercedes, Red Bull, us, and then Ferrari, Toro Rosso and Williams. They are clearly behind today,” ventured Boullier.

The first 3 pages of google are about the Barcelona / Monaco claims. Im sure there was talk around silverstone last year of Mclaren being 2nd only to Mercedes "in the corners"
You've successfully showed me a quote of them saying there chassis is below Redbulls so well done on proving my point.

max_speed
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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My views:

a) quite boring race except the very first lap/first corner.
b) ROSBERG will never become world champion. writing is on the wall for him to Read.
c) verstappen , is accepted as new God F1 needs now. he can kill someone and can still walk free.
Even blind man can tell you that he moved twice and deserved a penalty.
d) Mclaren after long time , looked decent.
e) Ferrari is not going anywhere. Season is providing plenty of examples to compare Vettel and Alonso on fair basis.
f) Hamilton he can relax and can start enjoying 4th WDC.

Moose
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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Interesting that Hamilton took a few swipes at Rosberg's pole lap in post race. Apparently he's also gone to Charlie Whiting to make sure that no one ever gets allowed to set a purple sector, and a pole lap having run through double waved yellows.

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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I can't follow the stupidity here. How is this a double move? Verstappen moved to his right and then came back to left, then never moved again while cornering. If anything, Kimi was being very stupid there trying to go right, then come left and then go right again. Trying to go down the inside, Kimi would have simply T-boned Max. There was no way to dive inside there and come out clean with the kind of speed that he was trying to carry. It's plain as daylight that Kimi was being too ambitious. Ferrari clearly know there was no issue and hence they didn't lodged a complaint, protest or something. Looking at the video below, no one can protest.

In all Hungarian GPs, the driver defending, tries to take inside line into that corner first, leaving outside open and then closes back after making the corner. It was exactly what Max was doing. Kimi was trying to sell a dummy with that double move and failed miserably.



This is what Kimi would have done if he moved inside. That he did to Bottas.
Last edited by GPR-A duplicate2 on Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

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ds.raikkonen
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Re: 2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

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@GPR-A: go through the posts in the previous pages before barging in and comment. People have agreed Verstappen's defensive moves are borderline dangerous, if not down right illegal. That's why he escaped an investigation. Having seen F1 and WEC for a long time, I've never seen anyone defending that furiously. It will cost someone their front wing in some race.
“Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary...that’s what gets you.” - JC