2017 tyre testing cars

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FoxHound
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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bhall II wrote:
FoxHound wrote:The question is why run low downforce when the rear wing is going to be naturally wider?

Surely if you want to replicate 2017 conditions, you'll go with more DF?
I'm not sure I know what you mean here. Who's running low downforce?
Smaller rear wing RB vs larger Ferrari.

Re testing tyres for a higher DF 2017.
JET set

Mamba
Mamba
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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Pardon the question but is it really possible that by just adding a beam wing and a few skirts both Merc an RB can match '17 df levels compared to Ferrari (big wing and skirts)?
I fail to see how a beam wing can add that much more downforce?

Regards
MAMBA

Moose
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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Mamba wrote:Pardon the question but is it really possible that by just adding a beam wing and a few skirts both Merc an RB can match '17 df levels compared to Ferrari (big wing and skirts)?
I fail to see how a beam wing can add that much more downforce?
The skirts will add far more downforce than the beam wing. Under-floor designs, with really truly good seals along the sides can generate huge amounts of downforce.

Jolle
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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Moose wrote:
Mamba wrote:Pardon the question but is it really possible that by just adding a beam wing and a few skirts both Merc an RB can match '17 df levels compared to Ferrari (big wing and skirts)?
I fail to see how a beam wing can add that much more downforce?
The skirts will add far more downforce than the beam wing. Under-floor designs, with really truly good seals along the sides can generate huge amounts of downforce.
If you look at the Ferrari rear wing, it's only about 15% larger then a '16 one, plus no beam wing (what works on the rear wing and the diffuser)

different solutions for the same goal, putting on more downforce, without using solutions with '17 rules (what is forbidden), relative low cost and without giving the competition any idea how well your original wing/floor/etc work. oh, and efficiency is not important.

ChrisDanger
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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FW17 wrote:some how the increased width of the cars are totally lost with these bubble tyres
There's also perspective. The Ferrari is closer with a wider angle so there's more foreshortening.

bhall II
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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FoxHound wrote:
bhall II wrote:
FoxHound wrote:The question is why run low downforce when the rear wing is going to be naturally wider?

Surely if you want to replicate 2017 conditions, you'll go with more DF?
I'm not sure I know what you mean here. Who's running low downforce?
Smaller rear wing RB vs larger Ferrari.

Re testing tyres for a higher DF 2017.
Red Bull ran a beam wing, a larger front wing, side skirts, and a modified diffuser.

Naturally, since we don't have data to reference, it's possible they didn't fully simulate 2017 downforce. But, my guess is they did, and they just didn't need a larger rear wing.

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FW17
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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They could have generated a lot more down force by removing the step in the floor for the test cars, but I guess that would have been a huge task.

PABLOEING
PABLOEING
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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With only 105kgs of fuel for race....with this wheels......will be a nightmare the total of kms of GP

f1316
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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bhall II wrote:
FoxHound wrote:
bhall II wrote: I'm not sure I know what you mean here. Who's running low downforce?
Smaller rear wing RB vs larger Ferrari.

Re testing tyres for a higher DF 2017.
Red Bull ran a beam wing, a larger front wing, side skirts, and a modified diffuser.

Naturally, since we don't have data to reference, it's possible they didn't fully simulate 2017 downforce. But, my guess is they did, and they just didn't need a larger rear wing.
I can't find the article now, but what I read was that Pirelli wanted "teams"- not just Ferrari - to run 10% more downforce after the first round of testing.

Vettel also mentioned that both teams we're supposedly having similar issues at the first tests.

Edit: so sources
manager Mario Isola said: “The level of downforce of both the cars was not really the one expected, so was a bit less.
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pirel ... rs-810360/
[vettel]"So we weren't fully there yet. I think Red Bull had a test the same week and had similar issues so we'll have to see but I think as a first shot it was interesting."
http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/173 ... -2017-tyre


So two different people for two different companies suggesting Red Bull did not achieve 2017 levels and that they were pretty much in the same situation as Ferrari.
Last edited by f1316 on Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Manfer
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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Ferrari ran a larger wing setup because they were the only team so far to test wet weather tyres. You cannot run the cars low enough to generate downforce through the floor as the car will aquaplane. The car is not travelling quick enough to do that anyways. I suspect this is why they bolted a larger wing to be able to run higher downforce in wet conditions.
Also if you look at the pictures of the Ferrari, they are running a beam wing.

BeardedAce
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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So excited for 2017.

zac510
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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I suppose they want to add more downforce to account for end of 2017 levels (as opposed to start of 2017), then they know the tyres can handle the season's developments.

f1316
f1316
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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Again, Pirelli not making any differentiation between the downforce being produced by the teams, implying it's much the same for all:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... -downforce

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Juzh
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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Posting this here as well.

Some new info on the 2017 tire testing so far:

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 78262.html
While Mercedes struggled with bad weather and rain during the 2017 tyre tests in Barcelona, Red Bull's Pierre Gasly enjoyed far smoother running in Abu Dhabi at temperatures of up to 38°C - with good results.
According to Red Bull's team principal Christian Horner there are a number of promising and one perfect compound among the batch of Pirelli's 2017 testing tyres, "Even during multiple fast laps in succession, this compound did not overheat and degraded in a very predictable, controlled manner despite the track conditions. Lap times were surprisingly consistent."
A contact patch 25 percent larger works wonders here. An employee of Pirelli revealed that the company is making progress on implementing a 'cliff' into the tyres. Using two layers of rubber this year has not produced such a pronounced loss of grip from one lap to the other that forces a driver to pit.
Red Bull's RB11 mule car provided Pirelli with the most relevant data. According to sources within Red Bull, the mule car has approximately 10 to 12 percentage points more downforce than the current RB12. Mercedes' mule car is reported to have 3 to 5 percent more downforce than the W07 whereas Ferrari failed to make any downforce gains when modifying their 2015 car altogether. The side-skirts do not work and there is no spare capacity at the Scuderia to modify the mule further.
Ferrari's current F1 drivers are the most active, however, with Sebastian Vettel racking up 1,100 km and Kimi Räikkönnen putting in 520 km. Red Bull's Daniel Ricciardo and Max Verstappen will only step foot into the mule cars and try out the wider Pirelli rubber at the last test in Abu Dhabi. Among the other current F1 drivers, Nico Rosberg tested for 220 km in Barcelona with weather conditions interfering.
At the very top of the table of test and junior drivers is Pascal Wehrlein (current F1 driver, but tests for Mercedes) with 2,700 km followed by Pierre Gasly (1,600 km), Sebastien Buemi (1,200) km, and Esteban Gutierrez (500 km).

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Big Mangalhit
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Re: 2017 tyre testing cars

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Ferrari with that huge wing and skirts failed to produce any more DF?? Jeez they are looking good this year. I know it means nothing for next year but PR wise...