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Lewis Hamilton completed a faultless Mexican Grand Prix to take the win unthreatened. Nico Rosberg did get under fire from time to time, but held it together to finish second. Vettel completed the podium following a penalty for Verstappen, although he too was later demoted, handing the remaining podium position to Daniel Ricciardo.
In response to this... this opinion sounds like you have limited real wheel to wheel experience. I'm no super star, but I've been in amateur racing since 94. (That's actual prof how much I suck Lol)Andres125sx wrote:How is that posible after braking and before releasing the brake pedal?Fifty wrote:In my time racing, the car in front owns that corner and it's the overtaking drivers responsibility to overtake safely and if you can't do it, or the door starts to shut in the corner, then the overtaking driver has to back off.
Once the overtaking driver brake later because driver in front left a gap at the inside, the overtaking driver can´t back off, as that would imply braking faster, but he´s already applying full brakes, so that´s simply not possible. That´s the reason for the new rule about direction changes under braking.
If he went too far (hit the brakes too late) driver in front must let him pass and go long/off racing line, then recover position. But if driver in front close the door after hitting the brakes, a crash is guaranteed.
That´s the reason most drivers close the door before braking, but Seb left the door open, and tried to close it too late when Ricciardo had no options to back off, read, after braking.
Any reason?strad wrote:that's just crazy.
Who said the contrary?strad wrote:As said, the guy in front owns the corner
Obviously, but there´s a difference between the driver behind going too long and crashing with the car in front, or the car in front closing the door under brakingstrad wrote:and it's up to the following car to get it done safely ,,, period.
Maybe you´re so amateurish you don´t apply full brakes so you can actually back off under braking.Fifty wrote:In response to this... this opinion sounds like you have limited real wheel to wheel experience. I'm no super star, but I've been in amateur racing since 94.
I´ve been a racing rider btw, an MX racing rider, so I have some wheel to wheel experience...
If Vettel had done the same as Rosberg, Ricciardo would have been in front as he didn't outbrake himself as much as Verstappen did when trying to pass Rosberg! And as i said in an earlier post it was just a squeeze...nothing like closing the door all the way in front of the other guy like Verstappen did all year long!! If you are going to give a penalty to Vettel for that then you have to give a penalty to Verstappen for Suzuka with Hamilton, where had Hamilton been a bit closer we may have had an Alonso kind of crash all over again! At least give Vettel a penalty for the right reason...ranting on the radio way too much...this kind of frustration (blue flags even in practice and talking to the race director like this) is not worthy of a 4-time WDC!Andres125sx wrote:Any reason?strad wrote:that's just crazy.
Who said the contrary?strad wrote:As said, the guy in front owns the corner
Obviously, but there´s a difference between the driver behind going too long and crashing with the car in front, or the car in front closing the door under brakingstrad wrote:and it's up to the following car to get it done safely ,,, period.
I agree the car in front owns the corner, but this is racing, there are too optimistic attempts to overtake on every single GP, if every driver in front think "I own the corner so I´ll take the racing line", we´d see a lot more crashes than we actually see
An example on same GP, this is what any driver who´s not frustrated and distracted do on that same scenario
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqfBMTv2llM
If Rosberg would have thought "hey I´m in front so I own the corner, the racing line is mine", they´d have crashed. He did the sensible thing, let him pass and recover position. That´s what Vettel didn´t do, closed the door under braking, and caused a crash.
It was on the limit, true, as he does not close the door completely, but doing that exactly next week from the rule clarification was too obvious
)! It's just looks so childish! Look at Hamilton, Rosberg, Ricciardo, Raikkonen or even Schumacher in the past...Hamilton didn't even want Mercedes to protest Verstappen after Suzuka and he is running for a WDC!
sauce AMUS (f1technical.net is blanking out all f*cks and sh*ts so I meade asterisks for an enjyoing read)Radio transcript GP Mexico:
L68 – RB to Verstappen: Ok, give the position. I think you’re going to have to give the position back, Max.
L68 – Verstappen: Let me know!
L68 – RB to Verstappen: Ok, stay there!
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L68 – Vettel: He has to let me go, he has to let me go.
L68 – FER to Vettel: Ok, copy. Stay calm!
L68 – Vettel: No, it's not right. I don't stay calm, cause he is blocking me into Ricciardo.
L68 – FER to Vettel: Copy that.
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L68 – FER to Vettel: We're on it with Charlie.
L68 – FER to Vettel: Ok, Verstappen has to give you the position. Watch for Ricciardo behind!
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L68 – RB to Ricciardo: Okay mate, so let's keep it smooth. Take advantage when you can.
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L69 – FER to Vettel: 3 laps to go.
L69 – Vettel: Move! Move, for f*cks sake!
L69 – FER to Vettel: He has been informed. He has to move.
L69 – Vettel: He's a bastard, that's what he is.
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L69 – RB to Verstappen: Alright mate, this is going to be investigated after the race, so keep your head down. 2 laps.
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L69 – RB to Ricciardo: Ok, 2 laps to go. Battery is full. Let's go!
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L70 – Vettel: Am I the only one, or are you not seeing what I'm seeing? He's just backing me off into Ricciardo. F*ck me.
L70 – FER to Vettel: You have to fight with him. Charlie...
L70 – Vettel: What the hell are you talking about? He cut the chicane.
L70 – FER to Vettel: Ok, copy.
L70 – Vettel: And now, he's brake-testing me.
L70 – Vettel: I mean, honestly, I'm going to hit someone. I think I have a puncture. Rear left.
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L70 – Ricciardo: That was f*cked. He moved on braking. I had already committed. F*ck.
L70 – RB to Ricciardo: Ok, understood. Vettel may have a puncture.
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L70 – FER to Vettel: Tyres are fine. Tyres are fine.
L70 – FER to Vettel: The car is fine, you can fight. The car is fine, you can fight.
L70 – Vettel: He has to give me the position, end of the story.
L70 – FER to Vettel: Charlie said that... Charlie said...
L70 – Vettel: Yeah... you know what, here's the message for Charlie: F*ck off! Honestly. F*ck off!
L70 – Arrivabene to Vettel: Sebastian, Sebastian... calm down! They are under investigation. I know that it’s not fair. But calm down. Put your head down and we will talk afterwards.
L70 – Vettel: Ok, copy Maurizio.
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L71 – RB to Verstappen: Ok Max, last lap. Gap to Sebastian 1,7 seconds.
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L71 – RB to Ricciardo: Ok mate, this is the last lap now. Tyre pressures are fine. This is the last lap.
L71 – Ricciardo: I've got a massive vibration. How is the gap behind?
L71 – RB to Ricciardo: Yeah, understood. You've got a 30 seconds gap behind to Raikkonen. Keep up the pace in case Vettel gets a penalty. You've got no threat from behind. Try to keep within 5 seconds if possible.
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L71 – FER to Vettel: Ricciardo has lost pace behind. He's 2,7 seconds behind. Try to stay as close as possible in case of 5 second penalty at the end. This is the last lap.
----- Chequered Flag
L71+1 – RB to Verstappen: Ah Max. What can I say, mate. Amazing job. Amazing job. Really well done.
L71+1 – Verstappen: That was hard.
L71+1 – RB to Verstappen: 59 laps on that set. Fantastic.
L71+1 – Horner to Verstappen: Well done Maxie, that was a fantastic drive. No debate about turn 1. FerrariHier geht's zu passenden Produkten auf Amazon.de! were moaning about it, but you were well ahead and it was a lot less than Rosberg did at the beginning of the race. Great drive, you managed it well, and it was a great effort on Nico as well.
L71+1 – Verstappen: Yeah, thank you very much Christian. It was very hard the last 10 laps. But at the end I think it was still a very good result.
L71+1 – RB to Verstappen: Cool the car on the way in Max! And just a reminder: You will be stopping with Hamilton and Rosberg at Turn 13 in the stadium. Enjoy it!
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L71+1 – FER to Vettel: P4, P4... slow and cool your brakes!
L71+1 – Vettel: I think I showed enough. I mean, overtaking is not a walk in the park. So to me it is clear. That’s the last what I’m saying.
L71+1 – Arrivabene to Vettel: Sebastian we understand, we talk afterwards and we are going to talk with FIA. You have done a great race, really. I am proud of you.
L71+1 – Vettel: Grazie ragazzi. The car was great, strategy worked well. Shame about yesterday because the pace was there to do more. Grazie.
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L71+1 – RB to Ricciardo: Nice job on that mate.
L71+1 – Ricciardo: Yeah, but what about all these guys outbraking themselves at the first chicane? I mean Lewis at the start and Max the same. Put a f*cking wall there and they won’t do it. That's bullsh*t guys. F*cking kindergarten stuff.
L71+1 – RB to Ricciardo: Ok mate, understood. You did a very, very good job today. Pace was excellent. As I said, we are speaking to Charlie.
L71+1 – Horner to Ricciardo: Daniel that was as blatant a move as we’ve ever seen. The event notes are very, very clear. I don’t think you’ve got anything to fear. It was a great effort that you’ve put in and it was a great move that should have made stick.
L71+1 – RB to Ricciardo: Ok Daniel, we're driving straight around to the pit entry. I let you have a chat with VettelVideo Formel Schmidt: Verstappen wie eins Schumacher! when you get there.
Lol. Two wheels. Run them as well. Dirt and road. Way different than piloting a 2+k lb car.Andres125sx wrote:Maybe you´re so amateurish you don´t apply full brakes so you can actually back off under braking.Fifty wrote:In response to this... this opinion sounds like you have limited real wheel to wheel experience. I'm no super star, but I've been in amateur racing since 94.
Pro drivers are different
PS: sorry but you didn´t let me too many options to reply when you ignore the points of the discussion and your only point is "I´m a racing driver, you´re not, shut up"
PS2: Even when rude, my reply is completely real, no way to back off once you hit the brakes and the driver in front change direction under braking cutting your line, and your racing experience will never change this, or you found some way to change physics?
Who said any of that?Fifty wrote:Lol. Two wheels. Run them as well. Dirt and road. Way different than piloting a 2+k lb car.Andres125sx wrote:Maybe you´re so amateurish you don´t apply full brakes so you can actually back off under braking.Fifty wrote:In response to this... this opinion sounds like you have limited real wheel to wheel experience. I'm no super star, but I've been in amateur racing since 94.
Pro drivers are different
PS: sorry but you didn´t let me too many options to reply when you ignore the points of the discussion and your only point is "I´m a racing driver, you´re not, shut up"
PS2: Even when rude, my reply is completely real, no way to back off once you hit the brakes and the driver in front change direction under braking cutting your line, and your racing experience will never change this, or you found some way to change physics?
Anyways. Your trying to tell me that a professional driver hasn't been studying lap by lap the driver in fronts positioning and strategy though a turn and doesn't know how to look at braking markers?
If I know that a driver makes a late apex on turn 3 every time, then I know if I late brake (full trail) and go nose deep on him as he is turning in (putting me into a late apex position that will not only force him off track, but most certainly me as well); that I don't have to take anything into regard until after I commit myself?
I don't have to regard wether the move is safe, proper or fair? Just nose in like its PlayStation?
With same rules, yes. But you´re ignoring that was allowed until past GP, then FIA made a rule clarification and banned that kind of movement. Then Vettel did it, so he deserve a penalty.AMG.Tzan wrote:If you are going to give a penalty to Vettel for that then you have to give a penalty to Verstappen for Suzuka with Hamilton
No / Driver 5 - Sebastian Vettel
Competitor Scuderia Ferrari
Time 14:41
Session Race
Fact Driving dangerously or erratically approaching turn 4.
Offence Breach of Article 27.5 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations.
Decision 10 Second Time Penalty imposed after the race in accordance with Article 38.3 (10
seconds added to elapsed race time)
(2 penalty points awarded, 6 points total for the 12 month period)
Reason The stewards paid particular attention to the Race Directors Notes from the US Grand
Prix (v2) and from this event (point 18).
Notwithstanding the F1 Commission directive to “let the drivers race” we note the
concern that has been expressed about manoeuvrers involving a change of direction
under braking as expressed at the Drivers Briefing at the US Grand Prix and in the
Race Director’s Notes from the US Grand Prix and this event.
The telemetry and video evidence shows that the driver of Car 5 did change direction
under braking.
Article 27.5 and the Race Director’s Notes have essentially three criteria that
determine a breach
1) Driving in a manner potentially dangerous
2) An abnormal change of direction
3) Another driver having to take evasive action
The video footage, including the close circuit footage, the broadcast vision, both
drivers' on board cameras plus the telemetry show that there was an abnormal change
of direction by Car 5 and this was considered to be potentially dangerous in view of the
proximity of the wheels of each car.
The video evidence clearly shows that Car 3 had to take evasive action as a result.
Accordingly as all three criteria have been met, the driver of Car 5 is guilty of a breach
of Article 27.5