2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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bonjon1979
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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The VSC put Ferrari in a lose-lose situation as it provided Hamilton the opportunity to pit early and get rid of the Medium tyres far earlier then expected. Ferrari could try to stay out on the softs but that would mean Hamilton got ahead of them with the undercut. Or they could do what they did, which is pit to maintain track position and hope that they could keep ahead of Merc which is what they did. Because they HAD to run the medium compounds in that final stint they were always going to suffer if an opportunity arose for merc to pull an early pitstop. I really don't see what Ferrari could've done any different.

komninosm
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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NathanOlder wrote:
Sun May 14, 2017 8:20 pm
Thought the race was good, and makes the championship a very interesting one for sure. As for the incident in to T1 as Vettel came out of the pits, I thought it was a bit lucky to not get a penalty as he had a car fully up the side and he ran the other car completely off the track including a push (contact) so I was a little to surprised to see nothing come of it. It was nothing like the Bottas incident on lap 1 as kimi closed in on him and gave him nowhere to go, Seb used the whole track from apex on the right to white line on the left with Hamilton completely on his side the whole time. In the drivers conference Seb smiled and said he left Lewis room which Lewis laughed and disagreed with.
Anyway it wouldn't have effected the result, it would have just been nice to see the stewards not allowing someone to run someone completely off the race track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRn4K8I ... oThreeFour
at 0:30
pretty obvious penalty for Vettel.
Just like when he was outside his starting box in previous race.
It seems FIArrari is back in force this year.

TwanV
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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komninosm wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 4:03 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Sun May 14, 2017 8:20 pm
Thought the race was good, and makes the championship a very interesting one for sure. As for the incident in to T1 as Vettel came out of the pits, I thought it was a bit lucky to not get a penalty as he had a car fully up the side and he ran the other car completely off the track including a push (contact) so I was a little to surprised to see nothing come of it. It was nothing like the Bottas incident on lap 1 as kimi closed in on him and gave him nowhere to go, Seb used the whole track from apex on the right to white line on the left with Hamilton completely on his side the whole time. In the drivers conference Seb smiled and said he left Lewis room which Lewis laughed and disagreed with.
Anyway it wouldn't have effected the result, it would have just been nice to see the stewards not allowing someone to run someone completely off the race track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRn4K8I ... oThreeFour
at 0:30
pretty obvious penalty for Vettel.
Just like when he was outside his starting box in previous race.
It seems FIArrari is back in force this year.
Wait.. what?

EDIT:
And with regards to the 1st lap incident in turn 1, check Bottas' braking point on his onboard. Kimi's behaviour was natural, as was Verstappens. Bit dangerous really to sprint towards the first corner in the front of the field and brake a full second earlier than everybody else..
Last edited by TwanV on Tue May 16, 2017 4:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.

komninosm
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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What don't you understand?
You're supposed to leave a car's width.
You're also supposed to come out of the pits more carefully.

Also you're supposed to start "inside" your start box, in a previous race Vettel was half a car outside and got no penalty.

giantfan10
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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bonjon1979 wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 3:54 pm
The VSC put Ferrari in a lose-lose situation as it provided Hamilton the opportunity to pit early and get rid of the Medium tyres far earlier then expected. Ferrari could try to stay out on the softs but that would mean Hamilton got ahead of them with the undercut. Or they could do what they did, which is pit to maintain track position and hope that they could keep ahead of Merc which is what they did. Because they HAD to run the medium compounds in that final stint they were always going to suffer if an opportunity arose for merc to pull an early pitstop. I really don't see what Ferrari could've done any different.
This!
I also dont get the issue some have with Ferrari's first stop.... their choices were either stop before Mercedes or be undercut by Hamilton who was about 2.5 seconds back and in prime position for the undercut

TwanV
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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komninosm wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 4:26 pm
What don't you understand?
You're supposed to leave a car's width.
You're also supposed to come out of the pits more carefully.

Also you're supposed to start "inside" your start box, in a previous race Vettel was half a car outside and got no penalty.
Why? :lol:

EDIT: Sainz-Stroll -> OK I see what you mean. But Vettel had every right to defend here. He would probably be sacked on the spot if he didn't.
Last edited by TwanV on Tue May 16, 2017 4:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

komninosm
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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Because those are the rules?

edit: defend all you want legally. if you go too far you get punished. It's not jail or execution, it's a small penalty that wouldn't even matter, but still FIArrari is back.
Last edited by komninosm on Tue May 16, 2017 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

giantfan10
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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komninosm wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 4:30 pm
Because those are the rules?
show me the rule that says Vettel broke any rule lining up where he did or leaving the pits in this race.
If hamilton didnt want to get squeezes off the track he should have slowed down... the driver on the inside of a corner on the optimum life normally does as he pleases

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Phil
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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I think there is a bit of leeway for the stewards to decide in such an instance. I suppose what played into Vettels hands is that at the point he decided to turn into the corner, Lewis was just pulling up alongside him. At the point he started to brake and turn in, Vettel to some degree can argue that he had committed to the corner at that speed and is to some degree a by passenger. I also agree that if the positions had been reversed, Lewis would have done exactly the same (which Vettel pointed out in a post race interview) so fair enough.

Another point was that the speed differential between both Vettel coming out of the pits and Lewis at a much higher speed. That must account for some of it, as Vettel couldn't have been looking non-stop in his mirrors to make sure he still had a sufficient gap to take the corner without leaving space.

I am just happy that we got through that corner without a major incident. Imagine if it would have resulted in a crash, a spin or damage/puncture. Then I think it would have been more closely inspected.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

Sevach
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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Well Hamilton "elbowed out" Rosberg in similar style about 200 times the last couple of years so i don't think he can complain (and he didn't) too much.

komninosm
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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Sevach wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 4:49 pm
Well Hamilton "elbowed out" Rosberg in similar style about 200 times the last couple of years so i don't think he can complain (and he didn't) too much.
I think those incidents were the reason this rule was clarified in the first place.
Also there were slightly different variables.
FIArrari is back in force this year, it's so obvious race after race.

komninosm
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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giantfan10 wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 4:36 pm
komninosm wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 4:30 pm
Because those are the rules?
show me the rule that says Vettel broke any rule lining up where he did or leaving the pits in this race.
If hamilton didnt want to get squeezes off the track he should have slowed down... the driver on the inside of a corner on the optimum life normally does as he pleases
It's called leaving a car length if an opponent is along side your car.
It might have changed, but I doubt it.

Yurasyk
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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Phil wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 3:11 pm
Time to pit: 22-8 seconds = 16 seconds (estimated). Result: Vettel 8 seconds behind Hamilton, Vettel on new mediums, Hamilton on used mediums.
I believe there could be even less seconds. As estimated, under VSC the car on pit spends 33 second between two safety-car lines when the rival car on the track spends 19 seconds for that segment. That means 33-19=14 seconds to lose by a pitstop. That results hypothetical 6 seconds behind Ham.

Mamba
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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Well, if Vettel had been given a penalty the world would blame the FIA for favouring Hamilton for the championship... No pleasing no one! No damage was done to the cars so no penalty in my opinion. As stated by others, Hamilton did the same to Rosberg plenty of times so he has no ground to complain. It was a hard move, but Hamilton would have done the same had the roles been reversed. Neither of them will give up position to each other!

I would prefer to let the drivers race. Let them scrape wheels and fight for it! As long as it causes no damage or retirements, I am happy and the world too I would guess.

MAMBA

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SR71
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Re: 2017 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, 12-14 May

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komninosm wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 5:19 pm
giantfan10 wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 4:36 pm
komninosm wrote:
Tue May 16, 2017 4:30 pm
Because those are the rules?
show me the rule that says Vettel broke any rule lining up where he did or leaving the pits in this race.
If hamilton didnt want to get squeezes off the track he should have slowed down... the driver on the inside of a corner on the optimum life normally does as he pleases
It's called leaving a car length if an opponent is along side your car.
It might have changed, but I doubt it.

I believe you mean car WIDTH and that rule only applies to straights. Corners are an entirely different rule set.

But seriously, as I've stated many times - the problem with F1 is the fans, what true F1 fan would complain about that move?