2018-2020 Tyres Thread

[Juzh]

Pirelli has set a limit on both pressure, and camber angles which makes it even harder to find that minimal sweet spot their tyres have.
I really don't think they're up to the task, and had hoped another manufacturer had won the tender

I always wanted michelin to come back. but hearing di resta, who participated in WEC 6h of shanghai this year, saying michelins had 5s drop off over the course of a stint, it puts those michelins in a bit of a different light.

[siskue2005]

Pirelli has set a limit on both pressure, and camber angles which makes it even harder to find that minimal sweet spot their tyres have.
I really don't think they're up to the task, and had hoped another manufacturer had won the tender

I always wanted michelin to come back. but hearing di resta, who participated in WEC 6h of shanghai this year, saying michelins had 5s drop off over the course of a stint, it puts those michelins in a bit of a different light.

That was after pushing those tyres to their limit every lap or the stint
The difference to Pirelli is that as soon as you push it there is massive drop offs.... the tyres are being babied now every lap and only then they will last as long as they want.
Comments from Mark Webber after he did WEC, he stated that this is how the tyres should fell and this is how it should be pushed

[Sevach]

oh yes you're right, up to then it was only "strong advice". Still i think it's a pity, teams don't want their tyres to blow up after all, and the high pressures are such a performance factor

Absolutely, right now teams are asked to assemble a complex puzzle (putting crappy Pirellis in their window) while having their hands tied behind their backs.

Doesn't help that Pirelli is conservative as hell with their recommendations.

Vettel's laptimes were still competitive in spa 2015, there was just a bit of drop off but still not enough for grosjean to attack him seriously. So this blow-out is solely down to pirelli imo. Do we have any soures or quotes ferrari ran lower than usual pressures?

Grosjean was catching Vettel from a long way back because Ferrari simply skipped the second pitstop that everyone did, Ferrari did a one stopper while running(well, aiming to run) 2/3 of the race on one set.
In any other circunstance the Ferrari was way faster than the Lotus, the tires were pretty shot.


Pirelli did say Ferrari were running "unusually low pressures" or something of the sort, i remember it clearly, but i won't bother searching for it, if it's that important to you can search 2015 articles yourself honestly.

[Xwang]

What materials make up the structure of F1 tires? Steel wires? Carbon threads? A mixture of them?

[Xwang]

What do you think about this?
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... d/download

Is it still relevant to today F1?

[Mikey_s]

Thanks for posting the link. I think the paper is relevant, but is lacking some detail in the complexities of tyre-pavement interaction.
This field is of particular interest to me and I have done some laboratory work on actual F1 tyre compounds looking at the flow properties over the operating temperature ranges of a racing tyre. Moreover, I have some information on thermal degradation and phase changes taking place in the surface compound of the tyre.
I have tried to interest a few F1 teams, but so far failed to gain traction (pun intended!) - I'm still very interested to work with a team and believe that there is a lot of knowledge to be gained which would help in race management and strategy. At present the teams are principally using surface temperature as a surrogate for rubber modulus and viscoelastic properties. I have managed to replicate the drop off in tyre performance as the temperature increases and identified a phase change in the rubber compound, which does demonstrate that the rubber properties will come back, but only after a period of time. This is seen during some of the free practice sessions, where drivers can push for one lap and then have to back off before going again.
Having said that, the tyre behaviour is only one part of equation; the other part involves the surface properties of the pavement surface. This is a 'known-unknown' for many teams and just as important as understanding the tyre performance.

[Xwang]

How are the maximum pressure and camber angles calculated by Pirelli at each race?
I have often heard Mario Isola explaining that they get simulation data by teams before the event to have an idea of the loads expected on the tyres and then they use the data taken during practise and qualifying to adjust the limits for the race if needed.
It is not clear how they manage the fact that not all cars have the same downforce or put the same energy on the tyres and so if they issues limits so that to avoid issues with teams that have more downforce or put more energy on the tyres, then the other teams could not be in the situation to optimize how they use their tyres. On the other hand if they use an average load/energy value, some teams could risk to abuse their tyres.
In any case it seems suboptimal from the point of view of the teams and could advantage a type of car philosophy (high downforce).
Is it maybe time to go back to a situation when teams decide their camber and pressure and are responsible for the tyres issues they in case encounter?

[JordanMugen]

Is it maybe time to go back to a situation when teams decide their camber and pressure and are responsible for the tyres issues they in case encounter?

How is that possible? F1 teams will always push the performance to the limit, at the expense of safety. Then Pirelli will be blamed for delaminations, crashes etc.

That's why rules like maximum camber or crash testing are required, as F1 teams can't be trusted to put safety above performance.

[Xwang]

Is it maybe time to go back to a situation when teams decide their camber and pressure and are responsible for the tyres issues they in case encounter?

How is that possible? F1 teams will always push the performance to the limit, at the expense of safety. Then Pirelli will be blamed for delaminations, crashes etc.

That's why rules like maximum camber or crash testing are required, as F1 teams can't be trusted to put safety above performance.

Is it not similar, if not the same, with any "technical partner"? The explosion of Vettel's rear brake is responsibility of the team and the same would be for the tyres as always as been in F1 before Pirelli became the sole supplier. I do not remember Bridgestone or Goodyear mandating pressures and camber when they were the sole supplier.

[siskue2005]

Is it maybe time to go back to a situation when teams decide their camber and pressure and are responsible for the tyres issues they in case encounter?

How is that possible? F1 teams will always push the performance to the limit, at the expense of safety. Then Pirelli will be blamed for delaminations, crashes etc.

That's why rules like maximum camber or crash testing are required, as F1 teams can't be trusted to put safety above performance.

Just like F1 teams and tyre manufacturers have done for decades before Pirelli came
Make better tyres!

[JordanMugen]

Just like F1 teams and tyre manufacturers have done for decades before Pirelli came
Make better tyres!

The Pirelli tyres are made to a tight budget. They are not prepared to throw unlimited resources at it.

Is it not similar, if not the same, with any "technical partner"?

Pirelli is not a technical partner, it is a control part based on winning a tender based on commercial considerations (trackside advertising spend with FOM etc).

[Xwang]

Is it not similar, if not the same, with any "technical partner"?

Pirelli is not a technical partner, it is a control part based on winning a tender based on commercial considerations (trackside advertising spend with FOM etc).

Ok, is it the same for Michelin in the WEC? If so, does Michelin impose maximum pressures and/or camber angles? It is not a critic, but I just want to know how other control tyre suppliers behave ...

[siskue2005]

Just like F1 teams and tyre manufacturers have done for decades before Pirelli came
Make better tyres!

The Pirelli tyres are made to a tight budget. They are not prepared to throw unlimited resources at it.

Could be please explain their budget with proper source and comparison to budget before that?

[godlameroso]

With the cold weather that the last few rounds have had, I wonder. Seeing as Pirelli establishes minimum starting pressures, and if ambient temperature caused the Mercedes to overinflate their tires in Silverstone, if the cold ambient weather is having the opposite effect, and the working pressure is lower than the minimum starting pressure?

[Morteza]