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How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?
Posted: 19 May 2017, 18:18
by godlameroso
Like the title states, how far away are we from having some crazy manufacturer decide to make a sleeved engine block made from a carbon composite?
http://blog.caranddriver.com/is-this-th ... ine-block/
Someone is trying, could this work it's way into F1?
Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?
Posted: 19 May 2017, 21:16
by rgava
With current rules, it's forbidden.
If it were not forbidden, why not?
Only thing I find possibly problematic is the lower thermal conductivity wich could complicate the colling system design, creating hot spots difficult to cool.
Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?
Posted: 20 May 2017, 17:42
by Andres125sx
Is that even possible?
How will they manage to make carbon fiber heat resistant to that point?
some special resin must be used for sure, but what?
Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?
Posted: 21 May 2017, 05:52
by godlameroso
Carbon composites can take the heat, but are prone to cracking far more than aluminum, once we solve that there's no reason no to.
Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?
Posted: 21 May 2017, 17:57
by DiogoBrand
Even if there were no fixed alloys for engines, minimum weight and road relevance wouldn't make it worth the effort.
Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?
Posted: 22 May 2017, 21:31
by BanMeToo
How much weight would be saved?
Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?
Posted: 23 May 2017, 21:37
by etusch
Taking some parts from outside someone can make his own home made engine with carbon fibre then. Good idea.
Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?
Posted: 24 May 2017, 14:56
by noname
Andres125sx wrote: ↑20 May 2017, 17:42
Is that even possible?
How will they manage to make carbon fiber heat resistant to that point?
some special resin must be used for sure, but what?
http://www.high-temperature-composites. ... rokarb.htm
Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?
Posted: 25 May 2017, 01:03
by Pat Pending
It's carbon fiber Jim, but not as we know it.
Not that it really matters but the material being used in that example is fiber reinforced resin, which is closer to good old GRP or fiberglass if you prefer. It's not woven carbon fiber held within a resin matrix, which is what most people tend to think of when you say carbon fiber.
It's still quite impressive though that we can now contemplate an essentially plastic engine block.
Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?
Posted: 06 Oct 2017, 10:42
by FightingHellPhish
godlameroso wrote: ↑21 May 2017, 05:52
Carbon composites can take the heat, but are prone to cracking far more than aluminum, once we solve that there's no reason no to.
In reality, the heat affected zone would be quite small due to insulative properties. Heat effects on the resin isnt even the biggest prob;em My question would be how does one build an adequate the cylinder head deck, cooling system, and main web/journals? I dont think the tech is quite there yet. Though, the tech is getting there as shown by the forged carbon con rods... this pic is old but it gets the point across.
Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?
Posted: 31 Oct 2017, 09:29
by humble sabot
Polimotor anyone? With sleeves almost the entire block can be replaced.
https://thekneeslider.com/plastic-engin ... nterested/
via: thekneeslider.com
There's a history of ceramic block efforts out there too. A lot of that work was halted by the limits of ceramic technologies at the time. The heat cycling would actually induce spalling of the cylinder walls, which means you start losing gas seal and then everything that goes with it.
Carbon, or "carbon" blocks are certainly not F1 relevant due to engine materials restrictions in the regulations, these days primarily as a cost cutting measure, those guys were starting to use a bunch of beryllium even. But there may be a window left for road relevance as lighter engines are always beneficial for fuel savings.
Re: How far away are we from a composite/carbon fiber engine block?
Posted: 18 Nov 2017, 00:46
by roon
FightingHellPhish wrote: ↑06 Oct 2017, 10:42
godlameroso wrote: ↑21 May 2017, 05:52
Carbon composites can take the heat, but are prone to cracking far more than aluminum, once we solve that there's no reason no to.
In reality, the heat affected zone would be quite small due to insulative properties. Heat effects on the resin isnt even the biggest prob;em My question would be how does one build an adequate the cylinder head deck, cooling system, and main web/journals? I dont think the tech is quite there yet. Though, the tech is getting there as shown by the forged carbon con rods... this pic is old but it gets the point across.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/wp-content ... 26x382.jpg
http://www.enginelabs.com/news/naimo-co ... ting-rods/
The proprietary polymer that Naimo Composites has designed allows the carbon fiber to maintain stability up to 300 degrees Fahrenheit operating temperatures, according to Naimo. But he adds that means the glass transition temperature is much higher and it would take considerably more heat to compromise the component.
But what are the advantages to running a carbon fiber connecting rod? Well, first and foremost, there is weight. Any gearhead knows that taking weight out of the rotating assembly will allow it to come up to speed quicker, giving faster throttle response, freeing up horsepower and allowing higher RPM.
“Our connecting rods should be half of what a traditional alloy connecting rod weighs,” Naimo said. “We’re not ready to release the final numbers just yet, but obviously they are going to be substantially lighter than a conventional connecting rod.”