Tesla Roadster

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Shrieker
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Re: Tesla Roadster

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Greg Locock wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:30 pm
I haven't got the specs for the Tesla semi, but given the claimed life of a million miles then it is a lot better than the car, ton for ton.

I realise the semi got some attention, but wouldn't a bus be a better fit for an EV? Low speeds, lots of stop-go, probably weight insensitive?
Would the electric charge be a problem if you're carrying a lot of people ? Something goes wrong, you fry scores of people instead of just one in a truck. Maybe that's one of the reasons truck arrives first. Or maybe the bus wouldn't be as advantageous as the truck in economic terms, so logically they went with the truck first ?
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roon
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Re: Tesla Roadster

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Shrieker wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:56 pm
Or maybe the bus wouldn't be as advantageous as the truck in economic terms, so logically they went with the truck first ?
According to the ATA, total 2014 trucking industry revenue was $700.4 billion, which alone is a staggering number, but making it all the more impressive is that it represents the first time annual industry revenue has topped $700 billion.
http://www.logisticsmgmt.com/article/at ... on_in_2014

Yearly US bus revenue quoted as $2 to $5 billion, depending on source, through various years of the 21st century.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/REVEF4855ALLEST

Perhaps 100x more money in the trucking industry, roughly speaking.

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Shrieker
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Re: Tesla Roadster

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Holy moly..
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Greg Locock
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Re: Tesla Roadster

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Good find.

wow

Cold Fussion
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Re: Tesla Roadster

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A lot of bus companies are public-private type of arrangements so it's probably more likely the trucking industry would adopt EV's if they significantly eliminate the fuel costs. The lifetime fuel costs as a percentage of total cost for a semi-trailer is probably very high so it's ripe for electrification so long as there isn't a range problem (range anxiety is probably not a thing for trucks running defined routes). In places like Australia you could imagine a world where these large warehouse/distribution centers would be covered in solar cells with some on-sight batteries so the trucking company could potentially generate a significant portion of their own electricity to almost eliminate fuel costs (and this probably what Tesla are planing for their gigafactories).

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Andres125sx
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Re: Tesla Roadster

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Phil wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:39 pm
You quite evidently completely missed TCs point which was about thermal efficiency.
And how is thermal efficiency of F1 cars related to Tesla Roadster EV?

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Andres125sx
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Re: Tesla Roadster

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Shrieker wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:56 pm
Greg Locock wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:30 pm
I haven't got the specs for the Tesla semi, but given the claimed life of a million miles then it is a lot better than the car, ton for ton.

I realise the semi got some attention, but wouldn't a bus be a better fit for an EV? Low speeds, lots of stop-go, probably weight insensitive?
Would the electric charge be a problem if you're carrying a lot of people ? Something goes wrong, you fry scores of people instead of just one in a truck. Maybe that's one of the reasons truck arrives first. Or maybe the bus wouldn't be as advantageous as the truck in economic terms, so logically they went with the truck first ?
I´d say safety is far from a concern, but mileage may be.

Buses are running all day long without significant stops to recharge, while trucks carry some load and then take a rest wich can be used for recharging, so even when they don´t work for US coast to coast trips yet, for any other trip within its reasonable range they´re fine

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Shrieker
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Re: Tesla Roadster

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Yes that is a good point !
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CBeck113
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Re: Tesla Roadster

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Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:52 am
Shrieker wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:56 pm
Greg Locock wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:30 pm
I haven't got the specs for the Tesla semi, but given the claimed life of a million miles then it is a lot better than the car, ton for ton.

I realise the semi got some attention, but wouldn't a bus be a better fit for an EV? Low speeds, lots of stop-go, probably weight insensitive?
Would the electric charge be a problem if you're carrying a lot of people ? Something goes wrong, you fry scores of people instead of just one in a truck. Maybe that's one of the reasons truck arrives first. Or maybe the bus wouldn't be as advantageous as the truck in economic terms, so logically they went with the truck first ?
I´d say safety is far from a concern, but mileage may be.

Buses are running all day long without significant stops to recharge, while trucks carry some load and then take a rest wich can be used for recharging, so even when they don´t work for US coast to coast trips yet, for any other trip within its reasonable range they´re fine
The semi will also be running in a near steady state, whereas the bus will be in stop-and-go conditions, which requires more power and therefore causes more wear on the battery. If Tesla has a new battery technology, then it may be sensitive to loading cycles, and the frequent acceleration and breaking (=charging cycle) could do more harm than good.
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Cold Fussion
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Re: Tesla Roadster

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Is battery wear rate a that big of a deal for EV's? Is the rate of battery development a lot slower than the projected lifetime of the cells?

Greg Locock
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Re: Tesla Roadster

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The Tesla batteries seem to lose about 10% of their capacity over the first 2e5 km, so over the million mile life Musk's spruiking you'll need at least one and probably more replacement sets of batteries, depending on what reduction in range you can accept.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... how-so-far

flmkane
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Re: Tesla Roadster

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OK now I have some hope that the political fistfight in this thread has calmed a bit, I want to ask a real question.

How can a sub 2 second 0-60 mph be done?

Don't talk to me about the power train. Tell me about the tyres, weight distribution and the cg height.

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godlameroso
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Re: Tesla Roadster

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Cold Fussion wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:45 am
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electr ... a-roadster

Anyone want to hazard a guess at what sort of battery technology they could potentially be using for this? If it really is to have a 200kWh battery, it would surely be too heavy to be a real sports car if it's made from the same technology as the model s for example.
Likely the new 2170 battery which is being used in the model 3, which replaces the 18650. The new battery has 15% more volume and 8% higher energy density, even then the 200kwh pack will weigh around 800 kg.
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godlameroso
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Re: Tesla Roadster

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Cold Fussion wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:39 pm
VARIANT | one wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:25 am
Cold Fussion wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:45 am
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electr ... a-roadster

Anyone want to hazard a guess at what sort of battery technology they could potentially be using for this? If it really is to have a 200kWh battery, it would surely be too heavy to be a real sports car if it's made from the same technology as the model s for example.
I'd be guessing by Moore's Law as it applies to battery technology, we're looking at ever so slightly better gravimetric energy density, and therefore, just shy of twice as heavy as a 100 kWh pack. :?
How does Moore's Law apply to batteries? Battery energy density has never doubled every 18 months.
It doubles every 180 months. At least until we transition to solid state batteries.
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godlameroso
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Re: Tesla Roadster

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Andres125sx wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:31 pm
Tommy Cookers wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:20 pm
'electric energy costs are half those of diesel'

how much higher are the environmental costs ?
(given the coal and nuclear sources of electricity)
not higher at all, maybe in India, but I´d say India is not the first target for EV manufacturers

Tommy Cookers wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:20 pm
how much higher are the social costs ?
(if the electricity is untaxed but the diesel is taxed)
Social costs higher? No way.

Diesels are taxed basically because they´re throwing poison to the atmosphere, CO2 is far from the only problem with ICEs. Taxes are only trying to compensate the health problems they cause :wink:

Tommy Cookers wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:20 pm
the liberal toshfest that is our BBC has just told us this vehicle has zero emissions
The zero emissions propaganda is an invention of the BBC? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Tommy Cookers wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:20 pm
has Mr Tesla heard of the 50% efficient heat dilution gasoline engines as used in F1 ?
they don't even need a catalyst
True, no catalyst, they only need 100kg of fuel to cover 300km :mrgreen:
That's the equivalent of 550kwh energy store in a package weighing 835kg, Tesla can't even get 200kwh battery pack to weigh under 830kg, let alone the rest of the drivetrain, of course F1 vs mass produced novelty item, can't compare the 2.
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