2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

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GhostF1
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by GhostF1 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:54 pm

Alonso Fan wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:15 pm
I've stopped posting on here as often as I used to because quite frankly I've got a life and have better things to do. It's the same things over and over again, mclaren and Honda and EB's head and Capito this and Dennis that. No actual constructive technical discussion, the odd good post burried within rants of endless essays of bashing (most of it unwarranted and unnecessary, but some justified). A decent result and everyone shuts up. A retirement and everyone's back here screaming.

It's an absolute joke. I'm sure the mods could cut the size of this thread in half if they really wanted to
I'm all for keeping it clean and the bashing to a professional minimum, however I find it ironic you are claiming to be innocent when you yourself take part in the bashing, mostly all pointed at Honda.

There is an actual difference between bashing and criticism and while I agree there is a lot of spiteful comments here, do you not think the criticism is deserved??? The team, no the company were absolutely rubbishing their engine partner, treating them like toe grit, while simultaneously claiming to have the best car on the grid. Apart from the blatant unprofessionalism as a corporate entity and complete lack of coming to the table and saying "hey you know what, we've got a few issues ourselves, let's sort this", it's now become evident that the absolute best they can manage is swapping it up in the midfield and only in the race.. qualifying they are nowhere. To some people on here, this team can do absolutely no wrong. But frankly I have not seen a positive sparkle in years and how the last couple of years have been handled and this angelic, innocent stance McLaren have attempted to take through it all has diminished a large amount of respect I have for them in general. Childish is a good word for how it's been handled.

We've got calls for past managers, we've got past directors all publicly commenting on the teams state of disarray, and Whitmarsh even giving an open invite to "approach me and I'll sort it out" but we've got a select few who comment saying stop criticising, they are fine, you're a basher, leave this forum etc etc.

Last year's car in the second half of the season was a regular in the points with 7th/8th/9th places, the record actually looks remarkably similar to this year's one so far, the reliability is at best sub par still, and the teams media reps are just flooding all outlets with photos of Toyota's LeMans win.. So no, I personally do not see "a drastic improvement" which a lot of the inner Honda bashers have been claiming and latching onto the 5th place in Aus. Remember we've had a retirement for the past 3 races now..
I can see the toxicity and it's bloody well ripe in here as well.

diffuser
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:27 pm

I keep expecting Peter Prodromou to do with the bargboards and sidepods what he did with the rear wing endplates. Maybe that's next after Doing the Nose ???

RonDennis
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by RonDennis » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:28 pm

Alonso Fan wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:01 pm
What part of 'in the races' didn't both of you read?

They have a qualifying issue. Attribute it to what you like. But the race pace is there and thankfully points are awarded on Sundays. The car is inherently good.

@RonDennis, what about Spain and Monaco? And what about the race pace in all of the races so far? That recovery drive in Baku? Surely the car isn't as bad as you like to portray. But it does have one key issue. If they manage to sort that out the car is easily good enough for fourth quickest outright and can knock on the door of the top three.
The real problem is that the car is crap. Ditching Honda and they are still fighting the same teams. Everyone is pointing to last year, but the pace at the end of the years was better than it is now. I don't really understand how you guys can talk about a good car when you're seconds of the pace. We've been hearing from the start of the season that they know what the problem is, but this is race 8 right? I stopped believing in McLaren in Melbourne. The only thing they're good at is talking.

Alonso Fan wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:15 pm
I've stopped posting on here as often as I used to because quite frankly I've got a life and have better things to do. It's the same things over and over again, mclaren and Honda and EB's head and Capito this and Dennis that. No actual constructive technical discussion, the odd good post burried within rants of endless essays of bashing (most of it unwarranted and unnecessary, but some justified). A decent result and everyone shuts up. A retirement and everyone's back here screaming.

It's an absolute joke. I'm sure the mods could cut the size of this thread in half if they really wanted to
If you want to talk about the car, there is a topic for that. This topic is for discussing McLaren as a team, which includes Eric Boullier, staff, performance etc.

diffuser
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:43 pm

ZB is the Shareholders Guy. This is his 2nd year. I doubt very much his job is on the line. In there mind this is Ron's mess.
ZB will be doing the chopping(if there is any). Before you chop, you need to find out what/who the problem is then you need to shop, then you chop!

mwillems
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by mwillems » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:01 am

Possibly. What puts that idea in the air a bit, is that I'm not sure Whitmarsh would have made his statements without consulting Ojjeh. If it is the case, and id be really surprised if it werent, then a declaration is being made on behalf of Ojjeh.

mwillems
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by mwillems » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:09 am

It was strong stuff, came out of the blue and even stating conversations with Ojjeh. I do not think blindsiding the team would help him get a role, but probably upset his friend and other investors. I can only see it as a premeditated sttategy that coincided with ZBs consolidation of power and the opportunity to sink or swim. You back your man 100 percent unt you realise you shouldnt. The investors will not tolerate ZB not getting the house in order, particularly with Latifi coming on board, which will also have added pressure and impetus. And quite possibly this is Latifi dipping his toe in the water with thoughts of further investment to come. There is a lot of big activity happening right now and i dont think anyone will be able to hide.

What we are seeing may be the beginning of the transfer of ownership, the due diligence if you like coupled with getting the internals in a manageable state to hand over.

Big Tea
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Big Tea » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:19 am

I am somewhat disappointed in Whitmarch. I know he was put in a position and no doubt feels vindicated, but by actively getting involved with the split he is already alienating one faction from him should he return, and maybe giving the other faction a rallying point.

It would have been better had he not opened up to the press and also not set himself up as the 'other guy' for the management of Mclaren to be able to counter or deflect. He compounded this by suggesting the disgruntled employees skip the chains of command and go directly to the purse holder.

I can see his view, but still think it was not for the best either for him or Mclaren employees.
The last thing a company on a downward spiral needs if infighting
One test is worth a thousand expert opinions

sn809
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by sn809 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:29 am

diffuser wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:43 pm
ZB is the Shareholders Guy. This is his 2nd year. I doubt very much his job is on the line. In there mind this is Ron's mess.
ZB will be doing the chopping(if there is any). Before you chop, you need to find out what/who the problem is then you need to shop, then you chop!
I can read the bias you have as a fan in your posts but open your eyes.
Do you really think a guy like ZB who has his fingers dipped in so many things, is the person who can get Mclaren out of this mess.
He has said he will not be able to attend all the races (this was before current management change but he has not said anything that indicates he will attend all races). He needs to be there be making decisions at the races not in the office.

EB, his performance is there for all to see, he might be ahead of his time in this position, who knows.

I donot know who is the best person to pull the team out of the rut but not the current team incharge.

mclaren111
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by mclaren111 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:58 am

diffuser wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:35 pm
Alonso Fan wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:15 pm
I've stopped posting on here as often as I used to because quite frankly I've got a life and have better things to do. It's the same things over and over again, mclaren and Honda and EB's head and Capito this and Dennis that. No actual constructive technical discussion, the odd good post burried within rants of endless essays of bashing (most of it unwarranted and unnecessary, but some justified). A decent result and everyone shuts up. A retirement and everyone's back here screaming.

It's an absolute joke. I'm sure the mods could cut the size of this thread in half if they really wanted to
I for one, enjoy your posts!
Me too.

mclaren111
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by mclaren111 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:03 am

diffuser wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:27 pm
I keep expecting Peter Prodromou to do with the bargboards and sidepods what he did with the rear wing endplates. Maybe that's next after Doing the Nose ???
Patience !! It's coming !! I have a lot of faith in PP.

Ground Effect
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Ground Effect » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:15 am

sn809 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:29 am
diffuser wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:43 pm
ZB is the Shareholders Guy. This is his 2nd year. I doubt very much his job is on the line. In there mind this is Ron's mess.
ZB will be doing the chopping(if there is any). Before you chop, you need to find out what/who the problem is then you need to shop, then you chop!
I can read the bias you have as a fan in your posts but open your eyes.
Do you really think a guy like ZB who has his fingers dipped in so many things, is the person who can get Mclaren out of this mess.
He has said he will not be able to attend all the races (this was before current management change but he has not said anything that indicates he will attend all races). He needs to be there be making decisions at the races not in the office.

EB, his performance is there for all to see, he might be ahead of his time in this position, who knows.

I donot know who is the best person to pull the team out of the rut but not the current team incharge.
I think we need to bear in mind that Zak's role initially leaned towards the commercial side of the team. He was charged with bringing in sponsors, PR etc. Though there hasn't been an earth shattering signing, he hasn't done too badly. Getting sponsorship in F1these days isn't easy but he's added a few to their portfolio.
He was only recently brought in as CEO of the racing team, so let's see what he does. No doubt Mclaren is in a mess, but I think their situation is not unrecoverable. They need to concentrate on racing now.
Q: (Stefano Mancini – La Stampa) Kimi, will you help Vettel to win his championship this year?
Kimi Raikkonen: I can only drive one car, obviously. 
@2018 Singapore Grand Prix drivers press conference.

PinkFloydPulse
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by PinkFloydPulse » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:18 am

sn809 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:29 am
diffuser wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:43 pm
ZB is the Shareholders Guy. This is his 2nd year. I doubt very much his job is on the line. In there mind this is Ron's mess.
ZB will be doing the chopping(if there is any). Before you chop, you need to find out what/who the problem is then you need to shop, then you chop!
He needs to be there be making decisions at the races not in the office.
Jeez, you guys really are on fire... What kind of decisions, racing and technically wise, can a guy that was brought in to sell the brand make?? There is a clear structure in McL currently, different from the Ron days where he made all the calls, Zak is NOT Ron, get over it...
Team Fernando!

trinidefender
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by trinidefender » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:36 am

Can the last 4 pages be deleted, this is worse than politics in the USA

Andres125sx
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Andres125sx » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:29 am

trinidefender wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:36 am
Can the last 4 pages be deleted, this is worse than politics
Corrected that for you, it doesn´t matter the place, politics are terrible anywhere, you should be glad to not hear some debates here in Spain :mrgreen:

And fully agree, last 4 pages are awful

mclaren111
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Re: 2018 McLaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by mclaren111 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:37 am

And then imagine me in South Africa !! :( :oops: :(