Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

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pierrre
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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

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get your hammers out, finished this on modern sidepod on formula one cars...i guess the term modern in formula one only last a year or more only...oh well


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godlameroso
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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

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Intertwining vortecies! AKA helicity.
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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

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What is the reasoning behind these Vortices? What possible structural integrity do they possess and at what rotational speed do they acquire any such integrity? As car speed increases along any straight, a vortex generator adds to unwanted drag and different corners require different speeds. So what is the thinking here?
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pierrre
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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

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well it certainly is something the formula one aerodynamicist are playing at. observing the edges along the side floor, the frontal area has a raised kink while behind it are gratings that actually look to draw air downwards, going the opposite direction. put two together and it looks like they are trying to generate vortex along the side of the car...most probably to seal the floor

Just_a_fan
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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

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They've been running vortices along the car for some time. It's hardly a new idea so not sure why you're suddenly querying it. An example:

Image

As for vortices adding drag, yes they do. But they allow greater downforce to be generated allowing higher cornering speeds. Thus improving lap time. Again, not a new idea.
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variante
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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

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pierrre wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 9:22 am
get your hammers out, finished this on modern sidepod on formula one cars...i guess the term modern in formula one only last a year or more only...oh well

Good job, that's a nice explanation.
But it seems that a couple of things were out of focus (minute 5 or so): the downwash effect is not there just to fill the gap left by the outwashed flows, but it is actively contributing to downforce production. In fact, the downwashed air can be used to build up pressure on top of the floor and to offer the Rear Wing a better Angle of Attack, neutralizing the detrimental upwash coming from the Front Wing.

pierrre
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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

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variante wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 10:29 am
pierrre wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 9:22 am
get your hammers out, finished this on modern sidepod on formula one cars...i guess the term modern in formula one only last a year or more only...oh well

Good job, that's a nice explanation.
But it seems that a couple of things were out of focus (minute 5 or so): the downwash effect is not there just to fill the gap left by the outwashed flows, but it is actively contributing to downforce production. In fact, the downwashed air can be used to build up pressure on top of the floor and to offer the Rear Wing a better Angle of Attack, neutralizing the detrimental upwash coming from the Front Wing.
thanks for the compliment

see what you mean by the flow curve in total that goes over the car from front would come down at a steeper angle on the rear wing as the side pods open a larger space behind it earlier too and encourage air downwards..primarily though i do believe these designers are focused on the floor

bosyber
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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

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Good stuff Pierre!

I am not sure a) whether this is the right place to post this (since strictly speaking, it's about the last generation of front-wings), and b) whether it has been posted around here already, but, it looks interesting enough for me, so:



Note that it's actually a thread with several more images

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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

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bosyber wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:21 pm
Good stuff Pierre!

I am not sure a) whether this is the right place to post this (since strictly speaking, it's about the last generation of front-wings), and b) whether it has been posted around here already, but, it looks interesting enough for me, so:

https://twitter.com/TimoteoBriet/status ... 7635257344

Note that it's actually a thread with several more images
Without wanting to be snarky analysis of a front wing should be performed at least with front wheels. But preferably with a quarter model (nose and wing hangers/turning vanes up to the cockpit opening). Otherwise it's pretty meaningless.
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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

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jjn9128 wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:37 pm
bosyber wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 1:21 pm
Good stuff Pierre!

I am not sure a) whether this is the right place to post this (since strictly speaking, it's about the last generation of front-wings), and b) whether it has been posted around here already, but, it looks interesting enough for me, so:

https://twitter.com/TimoteoBriet/status ... 7635257344

Note that it's actually a thread with several more images
Without wanting to be snarky analysis of a front wing should be performed at least with front wheels. But preferably with a quarter model (nose and wing hangers/turning vanes up to the cockpit opening). Otherwise it's pretty meaningless.
Yes, I do agree, apart from pretty pictures, I took this as a first step to see what the wing does on it's own (I am also assuming it is at least mirrored right now), before putting a static, then rotating, wheel in there; when looking at cornering, it would definitely first need those wheels, and possibly a nosecone as well.

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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

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One wonders why teams don't do more to try to encourage the helicity of the counter rotating vortecies coming off the back of the car. Maybe they do, and they can't do more because of the regulations. I notice the shape of the diffuser encourages air to travel towards the center area of the diffuser, and then spin on the way out.

The wastegates being placed near small winglets are driving the air coming off the back of the car into the path of the vortex as it's helped along by the rear wing center section, that vortex, then turns direction, and the other half is partially trapped in the rear wing outer edge, and endplate.

Where the diffuser kicks air up and counter clockwise when seen from the rear, the rear wing and end plate adds to this, because the pressure on the top side of the wing is higher, and lower underneath, therefore high pressure air from the rear wing will travel downward along the endplate to the underside of the wing where the pressure is nice and low. The slots and the way the endplate flares out increases the pressure on the outside of the end plates making the inboard area more attractive to the free stream air. This airflow can further enhance the vortex being shed by the diffuser, as can the suspension fairings.

One of the benefits of the raised suspension is that it allows a fairing over the suspension that can create small vortecies that help the main one.

There are many ways vortecies can merge, not only can they merge to become a stronger single vortex, they can also split off and reform, as well as "french braid" together. The latter doing a good job at adding angular momentum of the vortex core.

https://www.irphe.fr/~ledizes/web/CRAS2005.pdf

Image
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godlameroso
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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

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Here's a thought, can vortecies interact similar to mechanical gears? Where one can turn the other, and phenomena like gear reduction and mechanical advantage are present?
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Holm86
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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

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godlameroso wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:12 pm
Here's a thought, can vortecies interact similar to mechanical gears? Where one can turn the other, and phenomena like gear reduction and mechanical advantage are present?
I think not, won't they always try to merge, to find a pressure equilibrium??

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godlameroso
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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

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Holm86 wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:37 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:12 pm
Here's a thought, can vortecies interact similar to mechanical gears? Where one can turn the other, and phenomena like gear reduction and mechanical advantage are present?
I think not, won't they always try to merge, to find a pressure equilibrium??
Do the two counter rotating vortecies from the diffuser merge?
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Holm86
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Re: Formula 1 Aerodynamics - article series and general discussion

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godlameroso wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:11 pm
Holm86 wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:37 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:12 pm
Here's a thought, can vortecies interact similar to mechanical gears? Where one can turn the other, and phenomena like gear reduction and mechanical advantage are present?
I think not, won't they always try to merge, to find a pressure equilibrium??
Do the two counter rotating vortecies from the diffuser merge?
I think two vortices rotating the same direction will enhance eachother, two rotating opposite direction will cancel eachother out.

If you have one more powerful/larger than the other, I think they will ad up so you end up with a V¹+V² or a V¹-V² if that makes sense ?