2018 Monaco Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, May 24-27

[notsofast]

Sunday was a great chess match. Change tyres? Which lap? As it happened, it turned into a stalemate. That's not at all unusual in chess.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Monaco's real race is on Saturday, that is where Ricciardo won (and Verstappen gambled and lost). Maybe they should make more of a show of Saturday instead of Sunday

Agreed. Monaco qualifying is a spectacle as we have silly-fast cars being hustled around a silly-tight track. Watching them really hang it all out for that last 1/10th is brilliant.

Then Sunday comes and it's all just pointless. They may as well just award points based on grid positions and have a nice lunch on Sunday instead.

Or maybe they can have best of 3 qualifying! Couple of more sessions on Sunday and scrap the race altogether. Racing is simply not possible in Monaco.

[marvin78]

I for one am bored by races where you can overtake like it is a childs game.

[zac510]

Sunday was a great chess match. Change tyres? Which lap? As it happened, it turned into a stalemate. That's not at all unusual in chess.

[sarcasm] We must change the board, the pieces and the rules immediately! [/sarcasm]

[Restomaniac]

Can't we just enjoy Monaco for what it is? Prior to the race, everyone knew there would be little to no passing. After the race, we can confirm this is still accurate. No surprises there. What makes Monaco an extraordinary venue, is that it emphasizes qualifying like no other track. But besides that, it offers a certain unpredictability with it's high potential for safety-car and its unique characteristics of overtaking being an impossibility. Combine these factors, and it's not a done deal to simply put your car on pole. Sometimes, you can do everything right (Kimi last year, Ricciardo in 2016), but things can still go against you due to circumstance.

The intriguing thing for me about Monaco is that strategically, it gives teams some options. Sometimes your actions (pitting early/aggressively) can impact the drivers around you. Either your actions cascade to others, or they don't. This can sometimes heavily influence the race and its result. There's no other venue like it (IMO, Singapore coming close though), but Monaco is just that bit more demanding due to the extreme narrow layout and the altitude changes.

I wouldn't want every race to be like it, but considering we have 20-21 races per season, I think it's nice to appreciate that there are some tracks like Monaco that offer a unique challenge.

In a simplistic sense; if we raced 20 races on ovals, but in 20 different locations (but same track layout), we'd probably/likely have identical winners and domination by a singular team/driver. The variety and different challenges is what makes it such a spectacle and one of a kind. And you just got to love the craziness of racing at speeds close to 300kph on such a narrow street track.

Sorry mate but when a car that is 160BPH down can still win due to the unique situation that Monaco throws up. Then it’s time to start to wonder.

[henry]

When Ricciardo’s MGU-K failed the PU must have switched to a “carry on” mode ensuring that the MGU-H didn’t continue to generate and swamp the ES.

So somebody(s), somewhere, predicted this and took steps to make all the changes, fuel, spark, wastegate,etc to make sure the car could keep going with the maximum power available in the circumstances and ensuring all regulations were abided by.

So well done Ricciardo, buts let’s hear it for the engineers who looked into the future and worked to make it possible.

See my sig.

There's a wastegate to ensure the mgu-h doesn't swamp the ES.

So you think the normal protections would suffice? So when the MGU-H can’t send energy to the MGU-K it tries the ES and if that’s “full” it opens the wastegate. Then the compressor slows, either the wastegate closes or the ES drives the MGU-H. Or maybe other factors come in to play.

All I’m saying is that somebody sat down and figured out how things should work in this situation and implemented them such that Ricciardo could continue driving. These sort of things don’t happen by accident.

[Just_a_fan]

I for one am bored by races where you can overtake like it is a childs game.

The issue is not about the ease of overtaking or the number of overtakes, it's about the ability to overtake at all. A track that makes it all but impossible to overtake prevents racing. Racing is not overtaking but it is the possibility to overtake where another driver's defence is not excellent. At Monaco, one doesn't even need to defend. Just taking the normal line is sufficient to make an overtake all but impossible.

Max got by other drivers because he was at the wrong end of the grid. Once he got up to cars with similar performance to his, his progress stalled. Danny was able to run the majority of the race with a heavily "damaged" car and still win. On any other circuit, he would have been swamped, passed by everyone (even Stroll and Sirotkin) and then retired.

The drivers at the front ran with heavily grained tyres where at any other circuit they would have pitted and tried to fight back through. At Monaco, you don't get to "fight your way back through" even if you're on new tyres against guys with worn tyres. This isn't new, this has happened for decades - Senna held off Mansell who was in a car that was 5 seconds a lap quicker on new tyres back in 1992. It was skilful driving by both but it was entirely pointless because there is no way that you can overtake if the guy ahead is simply awake.

As a piece of theatre where drivers can show their bravery in qualifying by scraping the barriers and riding the knife edge, or a place for the great and good to show off their plumage, Monaco has no equal on the calendar. As a racing circuit, a place for drivers to race each other, it's a silly anachronism with no merit at all.

[zac510]

Sorry mate but when a car that is 160BPH down can still win due to the unique situation that Monaco throws up. Then it’s time to start to wonder.

It's time to wonder what you really want to get (enjoy) out of F1.

[Phil]

Sorry mate but when a car that is 160BPH down can still win due to the unique situation that Monaco throws up. Then it’s time to start to wonder.

I actually found that made it the exciting race it was. Will Daniel still win, despite that mighty power deficit? Likely, on any different circuit, he would have retired the car, yet here we got to see him use all his talent to win.

Mercedes suffered a similar fault towards the end of the Canadian, I think 2014 grand prix, when the MGU-K in both Mercedes cars failed. As a result, the change in brake balance ended in a brake failure in Hamilton's car. There were similar concerns at Monaco with Daniels failure. The loss of the MGU-K meant that there was less braking power at the rear. Daniel apparently had to offset the balance to the fronts by 7% to not overload the rear brakes. To not be vulnerable on the DRS straight and after the tunnel, he also had to make sure to increase the gap to Seb in the corners before.

Then there was also the tension over the additional strain to the engine and the potential of a safety car which would/could have made Daniel vulnerable at the restart. Or if the tires would last till the end. A potential stop would have surely cost him the position with not enough power to defend on the in- and outlap.

I freely admit, these nuances to racing are not to the enjoyment of everyone, but if you are a true motorsport fanatic and not just someone who follows motorsport for the quick spectacle, I can't see why one wouldn't appreciate it for these little details. As notsofast pointed out above, the race was like chess.

[dans79]

I have no problem saying it, I hate Monaco. My wife always says we should go, and I always tell her I'd rather go to no race than go to Monaco. Short of a team or driver mistake, they will finish in the same order they started in.

[Andres125sx]

In all honesty, no. It's not like they aren't able to take the corners, and overtaking was not hindered by the size as Verstappen duly showed.

Running in dirty air is the primary concern.

Sorry Turbo, but you can´t take the fastest car starting from the bottom of the grid as a reference for overtaking posibilities.

He finished 9th, behind Renault wich is more than a second slower, but couldn´t pass.

To me Monaco is boring to the point I fast forwarded most part of the race. Looking a sucession of cars lapping around 2-3 seconds slower than the could do because none can overtake so they don´t need to assume any risk is a gimmick

That is Monaco today, a gimmick

Of course I can do that. A faster car out of it's normal position drives overtaking in the first place. If we hypothetically determine the starting position by putting the fastest car 1st and the slowest car last, then overtaking will not happen under normal circumstances. Go back in history and check all overtakes and you'll never ever see a slower car overtaking a faster car under normal circumstances. And if there are abnormal circumstances, chances are that the originally slower car became the faster car due the circumstances. Overtaking is symptom of a grid out of its natural order basically.

Also you are loosing the point here: a question was made if the cars were too big for overtaking. The size is not hindering as Verstappen duly showed, because if size did matter then Verstappen would not have been able to go through, even with his faster car. Keep in mind this is no comment by any means on overall overtaking possibilities in Monaco. Overtaking remains very difficult in Monaco. I just don't think the size of the car plays any significant role in it.

Fair enough, if you were about cars width than I must agree.

But even so, things are not that easy. It´s not a matter of yes or not, wider cars don´t make ovetaking easier for drivers, period

But I also must say I don´t think with previous narrower cars we´d have seen any more overtaking in this GP

[turbof1]

Sorry Turbo, but you can´t take the fastest car starting from the bottom of the grid as a reference for overtaking posibilities.

He finished 9th, behind Renault wich is more than a second slower, but couldn´t pass.

To me Monaco is boring to the point I fast forwarded most part of the race. Looking a sucession of cars lapping around 2-3 seconds slower than the could do because none can overtake so they don´t need to assume any risk is a gimmick

That is Monaco today, a gimmick

Of course I can do that. A faster car out of it's normal position drives overtaking in the first place. If we hypothetically determine the starting position by putting the fastest car 1st and the slowest car last, then overtaking will not happen under normal circumstances. Go back in history and check all overtakes and you'll never ever see a slower car overtaking a faster car under normal circumstances. And if there are abnormal circumstances, chances are that the originally slower car became the faster car due the circumstances. Overtaking is symptom of a grid out of its natural order basically.

Also you are loosing the point here: a question was made if the cars were too big for overtaking. The size is not hindering as Verstappen duly showed, because if size did matter then Verstappen would not have been able to go through, even with his faster car. Keep in mind this is no comment by any means on overall overtaking possibilities in Monaco. Overtaking remains very difficult in Monaco. I just don't think the size of the car plays any significant role in it.

Fair enough, if you were about cars width than I must agree.

But even so, things are not that easy. It´s not a matter of yes or not, wider cars don´t make ovetaking easier for drivers, period

But I also must say I don´t think with previous narrower cars we´d have seen any more overtaking in this GP

If cars were able to follow closer to one another, close enough for serious attempts to overtake, the width might play a small obstacle. The truth is that cars can't follow eachother within 5 meters. If they were able to run within 1 meter of one another, then yes we'd have drivers exploiting the width and we'd probably be watching a very fun Monaco GP .

[Just_a_fan]

I have no problem saying it, I hate Monaco. My wife always says we should go, and I always tell her I'd rather go to no race than go to Monaco. Short of a team or driver mistake, they will finish in the same order they started in.

I'd like to go, just once, to see the spectacle, especially if one can get a seat near Swimming Pool where the the cars are dancing on the edge in qualifying. I would be happy to watch qualifying there and then go somewhere else for Sunday - a nice sea view restaurant for a long, lazy lunch with some good wine would be great. Catch up on the "result" later on my phone.

[zeph]

I like Monaco. It's just different. Overtaking or not, seeing F1 cars fly through those narrow streets is a spectacle in and of itself. The driving skill required is insane. It is not for nothing the drivers consider a Monaco victory a crowning achievement.

I hope it'll be a part of F1 forever.

[Restomaniac]

Sorry mate but when a car that is 160BPH down can still win due to the unique situation that Monaco throws up. Then it’s time to start to wonder.

I actually found that made it the exciting race it was. Will Daniel still win, despite that mighty power deficit? Likely, on any different circuit, he would have retired the car, yet here we got to see him use all his talent to win.

Mercedes suffered a similar fault towards the end of the Canadian, I think 2014 grand prix, when the MGU-K in both Mercedes cars failed. As a result, the change in brake balance ended in a brake failure in Hamilton's car. There were similar concerns at Monaco with Daniels failure. The loss of the MGU-K meant that there was less braking power at the rear. Daniel apparently had to offset the balance to the fronts by 7% to not overload the rear brakes. To not be vulnerable on the DRS straight and after the tunnel, he also had to make sure to increase the gap to Seb in the corners before.

Then there was also the tension over the additional strain to the engine and the potential of a safety car which would/could have made Daniel vulnerable at the restart. Or if the tires would last till the end. A potential stop would have surely cost him the position with not enough power to defend on the in- and outlap.

I freely admit, these nuances to racing are not to the enjoyment of everyone, but if you are a true motorsport fanatic and not just someone who follows motorsport for the quick spectacle, I can't see why one wouldn't appreciate it for these little details. As notsofast pointed out above, the race was like chess.

They are not mutually exclusive. You can be a motorsport fanatic and not want to watch a procession.