Sounds very similar to what I was hearing when EVs started to appear.djos wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:59 pmLooks like the hydrogen refuelling experience is pretty poor. Very few filling stations, long waits to use the single pump and the nozzle freezing to the car. Oh and very expensive unless the car come with free fuel (Toyota need to provide $15k USD of free fuel, that’s just insane!).
Even they have begrudgingly started investing in BEV's after wasting years on HEV's.
Not really, EV's have always had access to power sockets at home and the charging infra has really only been needed for long-distance travel. The nozzle's freezing to the car issue is unique to hydrogen.gruntguru wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:14 amSounds very similar to what I was hearing when EVs started to appear.djos wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:59 pmLooks like the hydrogen refuelling experience is pretty poor. Very few filling stations, long waits to use the single pump and the nozzle freezing to the car. Oh and very expensive unless the car come with free fuel (Toyota need to provide $15k USD of free fuel, that’s just insane!).
It absolutely is an issue, the entire HEV energy lifecycle is orders of magnitude less efficient than the BEV energy lifecycle which means cost will always be an issue. Hydrogen requires expensive storage and fueling systems that will take longer to earn an ROI also.gruntguru wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:14 amThe cost of hydrogen is not an issue. The Toyota Mirai carries 5kg. Green hydrogen currently costs about $4.00/kg but the goal is to get the cost down to $2.00/kg. Green hydrogen will eventually be produced using surplus renewable electricity. You know - the sun doesn't always shine and the wind doesn't always blow - so we need more generation capacity than we can use.
Can I just remind you of the Priusdjos wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:35 amEven they have begrudgingly started investing in BEV's after wasting years on HEV's.
https://electrek.co/2021/09/09/toyota-i ... yone-else/
We’ve seen the same with VW. Car companies don’t change their engine program that often and it takes a lot of lead time. When Toyota was taking the world by storm with their hybrid solutions, Volkswagen was going all in on the downsizing with the turbo-compressor 1.4. It’s only now, in the new cycle that they go directly to EV.
Unless things have changed a lot recently, Toyota had over 50% of the hybrid market in the US. They also have some BEV's, but to be honest I don't think they will ramp up as quick in some areas.Big Tea wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:59 amCan I just remind you of the Priusdjos wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:35 amEven they have begrudgingly started investing in BEV's after wasting years on HEV's.
https://electrek.co/2021/09/09/toyota-i ... yone-else/
That certainly does work, but it's more effective & efficient just to use that electricity to charge a battery instead of all those extra steps.gruntguru wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:14 amThe cost of hydrogen is not an issue. The Toyota Mirai carries 5kg. Green hydrogen currently costs about $4.00/kg but the goal is to get the cost down to $2.00/kg. Green hydrogen will eventually be produced using surplus renewable electricity. You know - the sun doesn't always shine and the wind doesn't always blow - so we need more generation capacity than we can use.
And being able to send 'letric down a wire instead of by truck into a storage tank gives it a huge advantage.(once the wires are already there of course)Billzilla wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:23 pmThat certainly does work, but it's more effective & efficient just to use that electricity to charge a battery instead of all those extra steps.gruntguru wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:14 amThe cost of hydrogen is not an issue. The Toyota Mirai carries 5kg. Green hydrogen currently costs about $4.00/kg but the goal is to get the cost down to $2.00/kg. Green hydrogen will eventually be produced using surplus renewable electricity. You know - the sun doesn't always shine and the wind doesn't always blow - so we need more generation capacity than we can use.
They have to - HEV refuelling infrastructure, the avaiability of cheap H2, fine tuning of refuelling hardware, and storage (both bulk and onboard) are all immature and miles behind BEV. There is every possibility HEV will become competitive at some point - especially so in the heavy vehicle arena (ask Mercedes Benz)djos wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:35 amEven they have begrudgingly started investing in BEV's after wasting years on HEV's.
https://electrek.co/2021/09/09/toyota-i ... yone-else/