Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

[tangodjango]

Another point that goes in Hamilton's favour is telemetry, yes they had it in Schumacher's day but it was nowhere near as detailed as today.

Don't forget that Bottas likely has access to all of Hamilton's data and vice versa.

When a driver enters a top team with a top car you would have to think that this team can develop and improve a driver better than a midfield team.

Surely with all the data at hand they can get the most out of his potential that lesser teams just can't do.

In other words they leave a better driver than when they arrived.

Don't forget Schumacher contractually did not allow the team's other driver to access his telemetry.

He probably did but I can recall Hamilton getting very upset in 2014 after Malaysia when the team shared his data with Rosberg.

They literally made a dossier on how he drove and handed it to Rosberg. In any case the point is that data sharing with his teammates is not something Hamilton has ever blocked judging from all information available on the public domain.

[tangodjango]

An absolutely beast of a machine that W11 is! Just so that if you have forgotten, W05 was 2 second a lap quicker in Bahrain when the dog fight started between two Mercedes cars. In a recent Bahrain 2014 debrief, James Vowels mentioned they were nowhere close to the maximum of that car! What does that say about W05?

If the W11 was so dominant in the wet, then why did Bottas only qualify 4th, 1.6s behind Hamilton?

Even the much-derided Albon qualified within 0.6s of Verstappen.

Also, what has the W05 got to do with the W11?

Hamilton has been brilliant in the wet for the last few seasons but speaking of Austria, didn't Bottas complain that the team got the ride height wrong for his car?

Also Verstappen was on the verge of pulling a similar gap to Albon before he came up to Vettel and made the error.

Bottas and Albon's respective performance levels are world's apart especially in qualifying. Also the team clearly stated that the "supposed ride height difference" made negligible to no difference, Bottas got brake glazing because he couldn't generate enough heat in his tires (again a wet weather skill) also an error is an error isn't it? If he couldn't control the car in Vettel's turbulent air (Vettel was blameless here) maybe he should have backed off, and no at the time of his error Hamilton was already 8 tenths up so at most he would have improved two to three tenths so the 0.55 gap to Albon would probably have 0.7 - 0.8 at best.

[Wass85]

Don't forget Schumacher contractually did not allow the team's other driver to access his telemetry.

He probably did but I can recall Hamilton getting very upset in 2014 after Malaysia when the team shared his data with Rosberg.

They literally made a dossier on how he drove and handed it to Rosberg. In any case the point is that data sharing with his teammates is not something Hamilton has ever blocked judging from all information available on the public domain.

I agree stunts like that are strange especially when the other car is still second but I guess it's all about improvement.

Let's not pretend Hamilton hasn't benefited before from studying his teammate, wasn't he at a loss why Alonso had better race pace in 07?

[tangodjango]

He probably did but I can recall Hamilton getting very upset in 2014 after Malaysia when the team shared his data with Rosberg.

They literally made a dossier on how he drove and handed it to Rosberg. In any case the point is that data sharing with his teammates is not something Hamilton has ever blocked judging from all information available on the public domain.

I agree stunts like that are strange especially when the other car is still second but I guess it's all about improvement.

Let's not pretend Hamilton hasn't benefited before from studying his teammate, wasn't he at a loss why Alonso had better race pace in 07?

Nice going with the what-aboutery. The debate was whether the team's second drivers were allowed access to Hamilton/Schumacher's telemetry or not. The answer is Yes and No respectively which is another blot against Schumacher.

[Wass85]

They literally made a dossier on how he drove and handed it to Rosberg. In any case the point is that data sharing with his teammates is not something Hamilton has ever blocked judging from all information available on the public domain.

I agree stunts like that are strange especially when the other car is still second but I guess it's all about improvement.

Let's not pretend Hamilton hasn't benefited before from studying his teammate, wasn't he at a loss why Alonso had better race pace in 07?

Nice going with the what-aboutery. The debate was whether the team's second drivers were allowed access to Hamilton/Schumacher's telemetry or not. The answer is Yes and No respectively which is another blot against Schumacher.

Where is the what-aboutery?

I said as much that having access to your teammates data is a benefit.

All I said is let's not pretend Hamilton hasn't benefited from studying his teammates telemetry when he clearly has.

[Wass85]

Interesting piece by Hamilton:

Lewis Hamilton wants Mercedes to stop his team mates from being able to study his data.

Hamilton, who has a new team mate for 2017 following world champion Nico Rosberg’s retirement, said the free availability of data between drivers makes it easy for them to identify and “copy” each others’ secrets.

“I go out, do my laps, do all my homework, the other guy can see everything,” said Hamilton in an interview for a Mercedes sponsor. “I don’t think they should do.”

“I have asked my team. I don’t want to see my team mate’s… I don’t feel it’s fair that he brings his A-game and I should be able to study his A-game on a computer.”

“For example when we’re driving we’re picking out braking points, bumps, tyre rubber marks on the track, all these different things to help get you through the corner quickest. And the other driver probably naturally may be able to do more or less than you are.”

“But because of this data they can just copy you. ‘Oh he’s braking five metres later there, I’ll go out and I’ll try braking five metres later’. So that’s what I really dislike. Because it enables them to get closer. That’s what I loved about go-karting, you weren’t able to do that and that was where just your raw talent is able to shine.”

[NathanOlder]

Yeah, I think what he's getting at there is, let the drivers drive. Lets go out and race driver vs driver. At least he's not wanting to block his telemetry , and want access to his team mates. SOmething that was obviusly happening at Ferrari while M.S was there.

[Wass85]

Yeah, I think what he's getting at there is, let the drivers drive. Lets go out and race driver vs driver. At least he's not wanting to block his telemetry , and want access to his team mates. SOmething that was obviusly happening at Ferrari while M.S was there.

Of course if he felt that strongly about it he could have point blank refused to access his teammates data whenever he was struggling but obviously that's not the case.

[Moore77]

They literally made a dossier on how he drove and handed it to Rosberg. In any case the point is that data sharing with his teammates is not something Hamilton has ever blocked judging from all information available on the public domain.

I agree stunts like that are strange especially when the other car is still second but I guess it's all about improvement.

Let's not pretend Hamilton hasn't benefited before from studying his teammate, wasn't he at a loss why Alonso had better race pace in 07?

Nice going with the what-aboutery. The debate was whether the team's second drivers were allowed access to Hamilton/Schumacher's telemetry or not. The answer is Yes and No respectively which is another blot against Schumacher.

For the sake of this argument, can you produce the proof of your claim about Schumacher having a contract of his team mate not getting to see his data?

The only driver, ever to have spoken about not getting access to Schumacher's telemetry, was little Johnny Herbert.
Look what I found!

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arch ... conspiracy

Ross Brawn, Benetton’s Technical Director, explains the argument for the defence: “Michael is sensitive about aspects of his driving style. He believes he has a certain approach that gets him results, and he doesn’t particularly want other people to know about it, in the same way that we wouldn’t want McLaren knowing about the technical details of our car.

“All the data is now available to Johnny, he can look at everything that is going on. They are competitive by nature and Michael, quite rightly, isn’t going to explain to Johnny how to go round a corner. That’s really what it amounts to, and I don’t think there are that many drivers who will.”

[Moore77]

Yeah, I think what he's getting at there is, let the drivers drive. Lets go out and race driver vs driver. At least he's not wanting to block his telemetry , and want access to his team mates. SOmething that was obviusly happening at Ferrari while M.S was there.

Hamilton just didn't have that authority to do so, else he would have been happy to hold back his telemetry data. Not that he was all happy to give it to his team mate. There is a difference.

[NathanOlder]

Yeah, I think what he's getting at there is, let the drivers drive. Lets go out and race driver vs driver. At least he's not wanting to block his telemetry , and want access to his team mates. SOmething that was obviusly happening at Ferrari while M.S was there.

Hamilton just didn't have that authority to do so, else he would have been happy to hold back his telemetry data. Not that he was all happy to give it to his team mate. There is a difference.

Exactly, didnt have authoity..... Not number 1 driver status. Equal drivers.

[Moore77]

Yeah, I think what he's getting at there is, let the drivers drive. Lets go out and race driver vs driver. At least he's not wanting to block his telemetry , and want access to his team mates. SOmething that was obviusly happening at Ferrari while M.S was there.

Hamilton just didn't have that authority to do so, else he would have been happy to hold back his telemetry data. Not that he was all happy to give it to his team mate. There is a difference.

Exactly, didnt have authoity..... Not number 1 driver status. Equal drivers.

Man, you are one special case. Take one statement out of context, fit it into another and make yourself happy.

[dans79]

You don't stare too hard at shallow waters.

If the water is shallow then why are you here?

I would definitely answer that question, if you can please clear me, with what authority are you asking that question?

It's not a judicial question, no authority is required to ask it.

[Moore77]

If the water is shallow then why are you here?

I would definitely answer that question, if you can please clear me, with what authority are you asking that question?

It's not a judicial question, no authority is required to ask it.

Then I would have no obligation to answer it.

[dans79]

I would definitely answer that question, if you can please clear me, with what authority are you asking that question?

It's not a judicial question, no authority is required to ask it.

Then I would have no obligation to answer it.

I would have thought that was obvious when I asked the question the first time!