Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Are Schumacher's WDC and Win records under threat of being eclipsed?

Will the 7 WDC record be broken?
6
3%
Will the 91 Victory record be broken?
44
26%
Neither record will be broken.
20
12%
Both records will be broken.
102
59%
 
Total votes: 172

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Moore77
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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dans79 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:18 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:17 pm
dans79 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:16 pm


It's not a judicial question, no authority is required to ask it.
Then I would have no obligation to answer it.
I would have thought that was obvious when I asked the question the first time!
I generally don't come across people who ask a question and not expect an answer. So this is my first time. I would keep in mind when to simply ignore when someone asks a question.
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dans79
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Moore77 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:21 pm
dans79 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:18 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:17 pm
Then I would have no obligation to answer it.
I would have thought that was obvious when I asked the question the first time!
I generally don't come across people who ask a question and not expect an answer. So this is my first time. I would keep in mind when to simply ignore when someone asks a question.
I think you have misinterpreted my response. Generally when someone asks a question they are looking for an answer, however as you yourself said people are not obligated to answer them.

if you look you'll see many many instances on the forum where someone has asked a question and it has gone unanswered.
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NathanOlder
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Moore77 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:58 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:49 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:30 pm
Hamilton just didn't have that authority to do so, else he would have been happy to hold back his telemetry data. Not that he was all happy to give it to his team mate. There is a difference.
Exactly, didnt have authoity..... Not number 1 driver status. Equal drivers.
Man, you are one special case. :lol: Take one statement out of context, fit it into another and make yourself happy.
Haven't taken anything out of context.
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:30 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:58 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:49 pm


Exactly, didnt have authoity..... Not number 1 driver status. Equal drivers.
Man, you are one special case. :lol: Take one statement out of context, fit it into another and make yourself happy.
Haven't taken anything out of context.
Could you post Schumacher's contracts to prove that he specifically stated that his teammates weren't allowed to see his data?

e30ernest
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Moore77 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:29 pm
tangodjango wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:43 am
Wass85 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:30 am


I agree stunts like that are strange especially when the other car is still second but I guess it's all about improvement.

Let's not pretend Hamilton hasn't benefited before from studying his teammate, wasn't he at a loss why Alonso had better race pace in 07?
Nice going with the what-aboutery. The debate was whether the team's second drivers were allowed access to Hamilton/Schumacher's telemetry or not. The answer is Yes and No respectively which is another blot against Schumacher.
For the sake of this argument, can you produce the proof of your claim about Schumacher having a contract of his team mate not getting to see his data?

The only driver, ever to have spoken about not getting access to Schumacher's telemetry, was little Johnny Herbert.
Look what I found!

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arch ... conspiracy
Ross Brawn, Benetton’s Technical Director, explains the argument for the defence: “Michael is sensitive about aspects of his driving style. He believes he has a certain approach that gets him results, and he doesn’t particularly want other people to know about it, in the same way that we wouldn’t want McLaren knowing about the technical details of our car.

“All the data is now available to Johnny, he can look at everything that is going on. They are competitive by nature and Michael, quite rightly, isn’t going to explain to Johnny how to go round a corner. That’s really what it amounts to, and I don’t think there are that many drivers who will.”
I would guess that Jos Verstappen also did not get Schumacher's telemetry. If he did, then he would know for sure why Schumacher was faster than him. In his interviews all he could say is he guesses Schumacher's car was illegal.

Again, that's just a guess on my part. Take it with a pebble of salt. :D

Wass85
Wass85
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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e30ernest wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:04 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:29 pm
tangodjango wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:43 am

Nice going with the what-aboutery. The debate was whether the team's second drivers were allowed access to Hamilton/Schumacher's telemetry or not. The answer is Yes and No respectively which is another blot against Schumacher.
For the sake of this argument, can you produce the proof of your claim about Schumacher having a contract of his team mate not getting to see his data?

The only driver, ever to have spoken about not getting access to Schumacher's telemetry, was little Johnny Herbert.
Look what I found!

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arch ... conspiracy
Ross Brawn, Benetton’s Technical Director, explains the argument for the defence: “Michael is sensitive about aspects of his driving style. He believes he has a certain approach that gets him results, and he doesn’t particularly want other people to know about it, in the same way that we wouldn’t want McLaren knowing about the technical details of our car.

“All the data is now available to Johnny, he can look at everything that is going on. They are competitive by nature and Michael, quite rightly, isn’t going to explain to Johnny how to go round a corner. That’s really what it amounts to, and I don’t think there are that many drivers who will.”
I would guess that Jos Verstappen also did not get Schumacher's telemetry. If he did, then he would know for sure why Schumacher was faster than him. In his interviews all he could say is he guesses Schumacher's car was illegal.

Again, that's just a guess on my part. Take it with a pebble of salt. :D
Shock horror, driver with an ego won't admit that a teammate was plain better than him.
Last edited by Wass85 on Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:53 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:30 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:58 pm
Man, you are one special case. :lol: Take one statement out of context, fit it into another and make yourself happy.
Haven't taken anything out of context.
Could you post Schumacher's contracts to prove that he specifically stated that his teammates weren't allowed to see his data?
I'll find it later. While im looking for it, I'm glad you agreed with my Schumacher pace at Mercedes theory. Were bulding bridges at last =D>
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:59 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:53 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:30 pm


Haven't taken anything out of context.
Could you post Schumacher's contracts to prove that he specifically stated that his teammates weren't allowed to see his data?
I'll find it later. While im looking for it, I'm glad you agreed with my Schumacher pace at Mercedes theory. Were bulding bridges at last =D>
What theory is that then?

A past it Schumacher who had been out of the sport for 3 years was beat by a prime Rosberg, it is what it is.

Mamba
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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ringo wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 5:17 pm
The season length is not relevant because you have the race start statistic. For example if Hamilton has 91 wins in 250 starts, and Shumi had 91 in 280 starts, that's still more races for Michael to get the job done so races per season doesnt factor there.
It is relevant considering the cars change each season. Longer seasons with a dominant car in Lewis' case again adds wins & podiums at a faster rate than a shorter season in the same car. Shumi also had dominant cars, but shorter season to boost his stats with them. It also depends how fast you get your hands on a race winning car. Shumi entered when the Williams cars were class of the field by far so wins & regular podiums didn't come running from race 1. Lewis entered in 2007 with a title contending capable car.

There are really too many variables to compare drivers on a like for like basis.

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Moore77
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:12 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:59 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:53 pm


Could you post Schumacher's contracts to prove that he specifically stated that his teammates weren't allowed to see his data?
I'll find it later. While im looking for it, I'm glad you agreed with my Schumacher pace at Mercedes theory. Were bulding bridges at last =D>
What theory is that then?

A past it Schumacher who had been out of the sport for 3 years was beat by a prime Rosberg, it is what it is.
Any straw available to hang onto and boost the argument, take it!
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Wass85
Wass85
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Moore77 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:51 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:12 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:59 pm


I'll find it later. While im looking for it, I'm glad you agreed with my Schumacher pace at Mercedes theory. Were bulding bridges at last =D>
What theory is that then?

A past it Schumacher who had been out of the sport for 3 years was beat by a prime Rosberg, it is what it is.
Any straw available to hang onto and boost the argument, take it!
All we can say is that a past it Schumacher who had been out of the sport for 3 years was bested by Rosberg.

If it had been just an age thing the gap in qualifying would have grown between 2010-2012, instead Schumacher got closer.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:06 am
Unless they were both teammates then it's all guesswork.

In my honest opinion Schumacher at his peak was too fast and relentless for Hamilton.

He would hold a decent qualifying advantage over a season and control the races from there. Of course Hamilton would have the odd standout race and beat Schumacher but over a season he just isn't consistent enough.

Outright speed matters and the German was just plain faster in qualifying and race trim.

Put a prime Schumacher in that Merc and he would have won every title there was to win.
Yet Rosberg dominated him in his later career. We can argue about age, but Schumi was out for only three years: 2007 to 2009. How much could he have really slowed in three years? He was the fittest driver on the grid by a far margin. Look at Kimi. He is over 40 and still has some amount of speed (or not lol)? How many tenths did Schumi lose?! And when we answer that, we cannot ignore that he was making all sorts of silly mistakes, crashing all over the place. Age surely has nothing to do with race craft? Or was it just because he was under the immense pressure from Rosberg he couldn't think straight? Heh... Only way to find out is wait till Hamilton reaches 40. Hamilton is 35 now, will be 37 when the new regulations come out; so three years into the new regulations we should be able to further assess how much age really slowed down Schumi and affected his judgement.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:03 pm
Moore77 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:51 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:12 pm


What theory is that then?

A past it Schumacher who had been out of the sport for 3 years was beat by a prime Rosberg, it is what it is.
Any straw available to hang onto and boost the argument, take it!
All we can say is that a past it Schumacher who had been out of the sport for 3 years was bested by Rosberg.

If it had been just an age thing the gap in qualifying would have grown between 2010-2012, instead Schumacher got closer.
So.. it is not age then! Schumi was just rusty!! Used to his number 1 arrangement at Ferrari, he underestimated Rosberg and it showed.
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Wass85
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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:14 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:06 am
Unless they were both teammates then it's all guesswork.

In my honest opinion Schumacher at his peak was too fast and relentless for Hamilton.

He would hold a decent qualifying advantage over a season and control the races from there. Of course Hamilton would have the odd standout race and beat Schumacher but over a season he just isn't consistent enough.

Outright speed matters and the German was just plain faster in qualifying and race trim.

Put a prime Schumacher in that Merc and he would have won every title there was to win.
Yet Rosberg dominated him in his later career. We can argue about age, but Schumi was out for only three years: 2007 to 2009. How much could he have really slowed in three years? He was the fittest driver on the grid by a far margin. Look at Kimi. He is over 40 and still has some amount of speed (or not lol)? How many tenths did Schumi lose?! And when we answer that, we cannot ignore that he was making all sorts of silly mistakes, crashing all over the place. Age surely has nothing to do with race craft? Or was it just because he was under the immense pressure from Rosberg he couldn't think straight? Heh... Only way to find out is wait till Hamilton reaches 40. Hamilton is 35 now, will be 37 when the new regulations come out; so three years into the new regulations we should be able to further assess how much age really slowed down Schumi and affected his judgement.
My opinion is that it wasn't just the age that hurt him it was more to do with the hiatus, a combination of these two factors in all likelihood.

Those constant mistakes he made tells me the concentration and focus just wasn't there.

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Re: Will Schumacher's Race Win and WDC records be broken?

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Wass85 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:21 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:14 pm
Wass85 wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:06 am
Unless they were both teammates then it's all guesswork.

In my honest opinion Schumacher at his peak was too fast and relentless for Hamilton.

He would hold a decent qualifying advantage over a season and control the races from there. Of course Hamilton would have the odd standout race and beat Schumacher but over a season he just isn't consistent enough.

Outright speed matters and the German was just plain faster in qualifying and race trim.

Put a prime Schumacher in that Merc and he would have won every title there was to win.
Yet Rosberg dominated him in his later career. We can argue about age, but Schumi was out for only three years: 2007 to 2009. How much could he have really slowed in three years? He was the fittest driver on the grid by a far margin. Look at Kimi. He is over 40 and still has some amount of speed (or not lol)? How many tenths did Schumi lose?! And when we answer that, we cannot ignore that he was making all sorts of silly mistakes, crashing all over the place. Age surely has nothing to do with race craft? Or was it just because he was under the immense pressure from Rosberg he couldn't think straight? Heh... Only way to find out is wait till Hamilton reaches 40. Hamilton is 35 now, will be 37 when the new regulations come out; so three years into the new regulations we should be able to further assess how much age really slowed down Schumi and affected his judgement.
My opinion is that it wasn't just the age that hurt him it was more to do with the hiatus, a combination of these two factors in all likelihood.

Those constant mistakes he made tells me the concentration and focus just wasn't there.
For the first time in 20 years, he had a team mate who wasn't required to roll over for him. Schumacher had to race his team mate. And he wasn't able to do it. It's that simple.
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