2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

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zibby43
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by zibby43 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:27 am

atanatizante wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:58 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:00 pm
GPR -A wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:47 pm
An interesting study on the comparison of PU performance across all manufacturers. Data from Bahrain qualifying and race.

Link -> Power unit 2019 from 990 horses: Ferrari and Mercedes are even, Honda and Renault detached
Very interesting indeed.

That contradicts Toto’s post-race narrative that Ferrari’s straights advantage came down to sheer power instead of Merc’s stronger wing levels.

Toto is a master at motivating his team.
I think here at Bahrein Merc was the team on the back foot regarding the car`s setup.
Their strategy for this race was to set the car for one stop like they did last year.

So they went for higher than usual levels of DF in order to give them a stable rear and good traction out of the slow corners heading towards the long straights, even though their race simulations told them it`s not the fastest way around here. So having a higher RW AoA means lower top speed on the straights and here you go where the delta speed comes from Ferrari ...

Or another hypothesis says they went for this high DF setup in order to bring the car into the tyres sweet spot considering both the compounds and most of all for the fact that there were lower track temps than Melbourne ... something that GPR-A could elaborate more about this matter ...
I think that's definitely accurate. Ferrari was adamant that Merc was running more downforce, and Merc acknowledged that while that was likely accurate, it still didn't account for the sheer size of the deficit on the straights. They pointed out they were losing out with and without DRS.

zibby43
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by zibby43 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:44 pm

Something that caught my attention:

Over the weekend of the Bahrain GP, I saw AMuS mention (in passing) potential cooling problems for Merc . Anyone else catch that?

In today's in-season testing summary, Mercedes noted:

"The team worked on a number of test items today, looking at the cooling of the car and collecting aero data"

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/merced ... n-bahrain/

Wonder if there's a fix due in China.

bill shoe
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by bill shoe » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:49 am

GPR -A wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:30 pm
Along with Alonso, Hamilton is someone who can drive the crap out of any car and deliver the best.
Yes they are both superb at getting the most possible from an imperfect car. This can be a curse for the long term development of the car. Kimi at Ferrari was underwhelming at bringing home points during races, but he was a sensitive picky driver who undoubtedly worked wonders to give his faster teammates a better car than they could have developed on their own. The fact that Hamilton is focusing on this more now in his career is testament to his growing wisdom and work ethic. I don’t think Alonso ever got there, he figured his job ended once he beat his teammate and complained about the car.

Capharol
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Capharol » Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:45 am

"It's not that it plays on your mind, it happens to all of us," said Hamilton. "Just because you're a four-time champion doesn't mean you're not going to have off-weekends.

"It's more cumulative. If you look at Vettel's career he's had stunning performances that far more outweigh the weaker races, and when he's spun for example, they are minuscule on the status that he's accumulated and created.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hami ... ontent=www

Mind games ..... 8)
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Phil
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Phil » Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:19 am

Or Hamilton was simply being asked questions by the press and he is giving his honest answers?

What else would you expect him to say? They’re all humans - and while some love to forget, Hamilton did have his own share of difficult seasons that resulted in lost points due to bad judgement.
Last edited by Phil on Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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digitalrurouni
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by digitalrurouni » Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:19 am

Capharol wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:45 am
"It's not that it plays on your mind, it happens to all of us," said Hamilton. "Just because you're a four-time champion doesn't mean you're not going to have off-weekends.

"It's more cumulative. If you look at Vettel's career he's had stunning performances that far more outweigh the weaker races, and when he's spun for example, they are minuscule on the status that he's accumulated and created.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hami ... ontent=www

Mind games ..... 8)
Indeed but what he said wasn't wrong at all.

Capharol
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Capharol » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:11 am

digitalrurouni wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:19 am
Capharol wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:45 am
"It's not that it plays on your mind, it happens to all of us," said Hamilton. "Just because you're a four-time champion doesn't mean you're not going to have off-weekends.

"It's more cumulative. If you look at Vettel's career he's had stunning performances that far more outweigh the weaker races, and when he's spun for example, they are minuscule on the status that he's accumulated and created.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hami ... ontent=www

Mind games ..... 8)
Indeed but what he said wasn't wrong at all.
that i don't argue
Strive for continuous improvement, instead of perfection.
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LM10
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by LM10 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:02 pm

atanatizante wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:58 pm

I think here at Bahrein Merc was the team on the back foot regarding the car`s setup.
Their strategy for this race was to set the car for one stop like they did last year.

So they went for higher than usual levels of DF in order to give them a stable rear and good traction out of the slow corners heading towards the long straights, even though their race simulations told them it`s not the fastest way around here. So having a higher RW AoA means lower top speed on the straights and here you go where the delta speed comes from Ferrari ...

Or another hypothesis says they went for this high DF setup in order to bring the car into the tyres sweet spot considering both the compounds and most of all for the fact that there were lower track temps than Melbourne ... something that GPR-A could elaborate more about this matter ...
If you watch the comparison video of the Q3 laps of Leclerc and Hamilton, you'll see that Hamilton had clearly higher corner entry speeds, but as soon as they exited the corner Leclerc out-accelerated Hamilton already in the initial acceleration phase (no DRS and no big drag).
This was the case at every single corner, but let's just look at the first corner: Leclerc had a minimum cornering speed of 66 km/h whereas Hamilton's was 77 km/h. Half a second later, Leclerc already was at 180 km/h and Hamilton at 170 km/h.

Now, there are 2 (3) options for this:
1. Ferrari had significantly better traction
2. Ferrari had a power advantage on initial acceleration
(3. Mercedes had problems regarding set-up)


Espresso
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Espresso » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:29 pm

LM10 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:02 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:58 pm

I think here at Bahrein Merc was the team on the back foot regarding the car`s setup.
Their strategy for this race was to set the car for one stop like they did last year.

So they went for higher than usual levels of DF in order to give them a stable rear and good traction out of the slow corners heading towards the long straights, even though their race simulations told them it`s not the fastest way around here. So having a higher RW AoA means lower top speed on the straights and here you go where the delta speed comes from Ferrari ...

Or another hypothesis says they went for this high DF setup in order to bring the car into the tyres sweet spot considering both the compounds and most of all for the fact that there were lower track temps than Melbourne ... something that GPR-A could elaborate more about this matter ...
If you watch the comparison video of the Q3 laps of Leclerc and Hamilton, you'll see that Hamilton had clearly higher corner entry speeds, but as soon as they exited the corner Leclerc out-accelerated Hamilton already in the initial acceleration phase (no DRS and no big drag).
This was the case at every single corner, but let's just look at the first corner: Leclerc had a minimum cornering speed of 66 km/h whereas Hamilton's was 77 km/h. Half a second later, Leclerc already was at 180 km/h and Hamilton at 170 km/h.

Now, there are 2 (3) options for this:
1. Ferrari had significantly better traction
2. Ferrari had a power advantage on initial acceleration
(3. Mercedes had problems regarding set-up)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ob__u0N-zns
Looks more like different driving styles. That would give option 4.
4. LeClerc brakes a fraction later but much harder....and this enables him to step on the throttle earlier

This driving style explains LeClerc higher fuel usage. Without the safetycar in the desert final rounds LeClerc wouldn't have reached the finish flag.....and hence maybe the cause of the engine problems in the end as the fuel bladder got empty...
The only option he would finished first was a safetycar situation before Hamilton passed him. In all other scenario's he would have fallen back or grounded to a halt.

Hamilton uses a more 'fuel conserving' cornering technique loosing the least possible amount of speed in corner entry.
Last edited by Espresso on Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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dans79
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by dans79 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:32 pm

LM10 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:02 pm
Now, there are 2 (3) options for this:
1. Ferrari had significantly better traction
2. Ferrari had a power advantage on initial acceleration
(3. Mercedes had problems regarding set-up)
I would go with the following.
  • 1 & 2 are are caused by the same thing, Ferrari has better traction due to running a less rigid suspension set-up
  • Ferrari Was running less rear wing, because of the above.
  • Mercedes still can't nail their set-up consistently, and thus had to make compromises for the sake of tire life.

TAG
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by TAG » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:38 pm

Somewhere in an alternate reality Hamilton and Vettel traded seats in 2017 and 2018. I would love to know the results of that championship.

Anyway, I posted this in the Ferrari thread a day or two ago. Peter Windsor, a guy who's commentary I always look forward to and respect compares the style of Leclerc and Hamilton particularly in turns 9 and 10.

Countdown to 91: 9 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Morteza » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:43 pm

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by TAG » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:52 pm

I know Toto takes a lot of heat from some people about machinations and disinformation and generally trying to hype up every other team. There's a lot of opinion there. The fact remains though that Mercedes post race fan debrief videos and Q&A is the most transparent thing there is in the sport at the moment from any team whether they be at the front or the back of the grid.

Kudos to them for that.
Countdown to 91: 9 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by Just_a_fan » Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:02 pm

I agree. At least Mercedes are trying to be fan-facing and interactive, unlike the rest of the grid that, well, doesn't. We hear from RedBull a lot but it's only ever political stuff from Horner or Marko. Ferrari are as aloof as ever - it seems to be "a thing" for them to be that way.

Instead of having silly frilly stuff around the weekends, F1 should be looking at this as a model for how to be more open, more approachable for fans - new and old. It's a good use of the internet and presents information straight from the horse's mouth rather than spun by journalists looking for controversy to make their stories interesting.

The reality that F1 needs to accept is that it is, on the whole, fairly dull. All sport is unless you're a fanatic of that particular genre. So you need to take the stuff that can be interesting and push that forward to get people interested. Don't try to add razzamatazz to "the show". It doesn't work. It can't work because most of the audience is watching remotely through a narrow field of view tunnel that is TV. Connect with the audience on a personal level and you have a chance of holding them.
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zibby43
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Re: 2019 Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One Team

Post by zibby43 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:19 pm

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/merced ... t-of-2019/

"It’s been great to have George back in our car for the day and many thanks to Williams for allowing it. He did an excellent job today, the way he goes about testing and his consistency and feedback would make you think he has a couple of seasons of F1 under his belt, not just two races. The morning had been successful, we had a packed programme due to the rain yesterday but were getting through the items very well. Unfortunately, at lunch we spotted a small water leak that wasn’t a quick fix which delayed our afternoon programme quite considerably. Whilst we couldn’t complete all our test items, we’ve done the important bits and we leave here with more information and understanding of the car and tyres and we’ve managed to test some developments that we plan to roll out over the next few races."