2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

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diffuser
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:06 pm

M840TR wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:50 pm
diffuser wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:35 pm
M840TR wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:06 pm


It's quite front limited indeed. Sort of like Barcelona. Judging by the pattern so far the performance will probably be quite bad. Renault is bringing a substantial upgrade as well while still being a bit ahead on pace currently, so the outlook looks bleak in terms of pace.
It all depends on how accurate some of the speeds are. It isn't clear to me if McLaren are front end limited at slow speeds and not so much at high speed.


There was talk about removing turns 8 and 9 from the 2019 configuration last year.
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... ck-map.jpg
Understeer mostly hits at high entry speed, doesn't matter if the corner is slow or fast.
You can generate more DF at Higher speeds.

godlameroso
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by godlameroso » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:19 pm

Ground Effect wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:03 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:56 pm
_cerber1 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:34 am


French track is limited in front? It seems that this is not very suitable for our chassis.
Its front limited in the final 3 curves which are long and low speed. All other corners have relatively fast entries, save the slowest turn which leads onto the back straight.

Alonso managed to score points there last year. They can do it again with a trouble free weekend. The car is fast enough to finish every race in the points, and getting better every round. There are still costly operational errors holding them back.
Alonso was a DNF at Paul Ricard last year.
Was thinking of Austria sorry.
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M840TR
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:01 pm

diffuser wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:06 pm
M840TR wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:50 pm
diffuser wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:35 pm


It all depends on how accurate some of the speeds are. It isn't clear to me if McLaren are front end limited at slow speeds and not so much at high speed.


There was talk about removing turns 8 and 9 from the 2019 configuration last year.
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... ck-map.jpg
Understeer mostly hits at high entry speed, doesn't matter if the corner is slow or fast.
You can generate more DF at Higher speeds.
Not with the tapered front wing.

charliesmithhd
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by charliesmithhd » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:08 pm

M840TR wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:01 pm
diffuser wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:06 pm
M840TR wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:50 pm


Understeer mostly hits at high entry speed, doesn't matter if the corner is slow or fast.
You can generate more DF at Higher speeds.
Not with the tapered front wing.
Do you think mclaren are working on a red bull/merc front wing, as James key said that style is the optimal

SmallSoldier
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by SmallSoldier » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:12 pm

charliesmithhd wrote:
M840TR wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:01 pm
diffuser wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:06 pm
You can generate more DF at Higher speeds.
Not with the tapered front wing.
Do you think mclaren are working on a red bull/merc front wing, as James key said that style is the optimal
I’m sure they are evaluating it, the problem is whether that type of wing would work with the rest of the package... There is interaction between the front wing, the suspension and the bargeboards... The current setup is designed to work with the flow of air that the current wing generates, it would be a very drastic change to go for a different wing concept.

The current concept seems to be working well, of course there’s still a lot of development needed, but it was really impressive to watch Sainz go for 60+ laps on the hard tires and maintain a very steady rhythm throughout that whole stint.


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charliesmithhd
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by charliesmithhd » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:26 pm

SmallSoldier wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:12 pm
charliesmithhd wrote:
M840TR wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:01 pm


Not with the tapered front wing.
Do you think mclaren are working on a red bull/merc front wing, as James key said that style is the optimal
I’m sure they are evaluating it, the problem is whether that type of wing would work with the rest of the package... There is interaction between the front wing, the suspension and the bargeboards... The current setup is designed to work with the flow of air that the current wing generates, it would be a very drastic change to go for a different wing concept.

The current concept seems to be working well, of course there’s still a lot of development needed, but it was really impressive to watch Sainz go for 60+ laps on the hard tires and maintain a very steady rhythm throughout that whole stint.


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But to make that push to the top 3 surely they’ll need something big like this, refining what they have may not

diffuser
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:37 pm

M840TR wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:01 pm
diffuser wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:06 pm
M840TR wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:50 pm


Understeer mostly hits at high entry speed, doesn't matter if the corner is slow or fast.
You can generate more DF at Higher speeds.
Not with the tapered front wing.
The faster the air passes over that wing the More DF that wing will create. The rate it increases may or may not be at the same rate as other wings but it still increases. Don't say no.

diffuser
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:08 pm

Shots From Monaco. So everyone is running max DF. Some wings Drop from middle to out on the top. some rise middle to out on the bottom. I'm not certain that the FW or the requirement by the aero that cause it to need this type of FW is McLaren weakness. They were very competitive in Monaco's in the first sector( 1/10 behind the 2 RBRs). The section where Sainz passed the 2 STRs.

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SmallSoldier
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by SmallSoldier » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:43 am

charliesmithhd wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:12 pm
charliesmithhd wrote: Do you think mclaren are working on a red bull/merc front wing, as James key said that style is the optimal
I’m sure they are evaluating it, the problem is whether that type of wing would work with the rest of the package... There is interaction between the front wing, the suspension and the bargeboards... The current setup is designed to work with the flow of air that the current wing generates, it would be a very drastic change to go for a different wing concept.

The current concept seems to be working well, of course there’s still a lot of development needed, but it was really impressive to watch Sainz go for 60+ laps on the hard tires and maintain a very steady rhythm throughout that whole stint.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
But to make that push to the top 3 surely they’ll need something big like this, refining what they have may not
I don’t think any of us really know... Red Bull has a very similar front wing concept (as does Williams) and they aren’t at Mercedes level... On the other hand, Ferrari has a very similar concept to McLaren and they are closer to Mercedes than anyone else.

I’m sure that the team has enough data on hand to make the best assessment and future upgrades will let us know if they are going in the right direction or if they decide to change the concept.

The front wing by itself won’t make all the difference unluckily.


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diffuser
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by diffuser » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:06 am

SmallSoldier wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:43 am
charliesmithhd wrote:
SmallSoldier wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:12 pm


I’m sure they are evaluating it, the problem is whether that type of wing would work with the rest of the package... There is interaction between the front wing, the suspension and the bargeboards... The current setup is designed to work with the flow of air that the current wing generates, it would be a very drastic change to go for a different wing concept.

The current concept seems to be working well, of course there’s still a lot of development needed, but it was really impressive to watch Sainz go for 60+ laps on the hard tires and maintain a very steady rhythm throughout that whole stint.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
But to make that push to the top 3 surely they’ll need something big like this, refining what they have may not
I don’t think any of us really know... Red Bull has a very similar front wing concept (as does Williams) and they aren’t at Mercedes level... On the other hand, Ferrari has a very similar concept to McLaren and they are closer to Mercedes than anyone else.

I’m sure that the team has enough data on hand to make the best assessment and future upgrades will let us know if they are going in the right direction or if they decide to change the concept.

The front wing by itself won’t make all the difference unluckily.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Exactly what I was trying to say with the pictures.

_cerber1
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by _cerber1 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:08 am

Giorgio Piola said

Image

Andres125sx
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by Andres125sx » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:56 am

mwillems wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:43 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:21 am
So brakes problems on both cars, presumably both due to debris blocking air intakes, compromised Carlos race forcing to do 67 laps on same tires, and melting Lando suspension. It´s a shame since McLaren was performing really well this weekend

Some will say drivers did underperform again tough :roll:
I'm not sure anyone has looked at mechanical failures / issues and blamed the drivers, it's just you putting that out there I think, but if it suits you're narrative then i dont mind 😊
Well, you said he ruined 3 races himself even when you can´t provide a reason for the third (first two are laughable btw), but keep blaming him so... :roll:

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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by mwillems » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:04 am

Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:56 am
mwillems wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:43 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:21 am
So brakes problems on both cars, presumably both due to debris blocking air intakes, compromised Carlos race forcing to do 67 laps on same tires, and melting Lando suspension. It´s a shame since McLaren was performing really well this weekend

Some will say drivers did underperform again tough :roll:
I'm not sure anyone has looked at mechanical failures / issues and blamed the drivers, it's just you putting that out there I think, but if it suits you're narrative then i dont mind 😊
Well, you said he ruined 3 races himself even when you can´t provide a reason for the third (first two are laughable btw), but keep blaming him so... :roll:
Once more misquuoting. I said he compromised, not ruined, seems you have a little agenda.

M840TR
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by M840TR » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:16 am

diffuser wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:37 pm
M840TR wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:01 pm
diffuser wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:06 pm


You can generate more DF at Higher speeds.
Not with the tapered front wing.
The faster the air passes over that wing the More DF that wing will create. The rate it increases may or may not be at the same rate as other wings but it still increases. Don't say no.
Apologies for the brevity. What I meant is the tapered FW does not generate more downforce at higher speeds than the conventional. Of course any object passing through air has higher resistance with increase in speed, but relatively speaking the tapered FW doesn't generate the upwash that the other one does. Which is why the front end isn't as agile. F1 is all about relative performance; so for instance it wouldn't matter if a new car isn't as quick as the old one as long as it's better than the competition that year. Obviously the same applies to low-speed corners but aero usually isn't as significant in such scenarios.
The comparison to SF90 isn't as straight forward either. Sure the car is much better overall than the Mcl34 but that's not to suggest they don't share similar limiting factors because of mutual FW philosophies. Both have front-end DF issues which is a fact. Where the former excels is better aero (NB: Ferrari has an S-duct unlike Mclaren), mechanical and tyre management. If Mclaren keep developing the concept they'll probably reach similar performance levels but theoretically the ceiling is much lower to the front.

_cerber1
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Re: 2019 Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

Post by _cerber1 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:23 am