Why does FIA always ban blown exhausts? They banned blown diffusers in 2011, monkey seat and forced side exhausts in 2012. Does it affect the car following (dirty air)?
Why does FIA always ban blown exhausts? They banned blown diffusers in 2011, monkey seat and forced side exhausts in 2012. Does it affect the car following (dirty air)?
I think you mean exhaust blown aerodynamic elements.
I think the main reason is to prevent things like we saw or more heard during the aera of the exhaust blown diffusor when teams started to develope special mappings for the engine to improve the effect. This could give some teams an advatage beyond simply a few hp more, when they choose to run the engine of a certain manufacturer.
Re: Why does FIA always ban blown exhausts?
Posted: 18 Mar 2019, 15:28
by zac510
Prior to Liberty days, the FIA didn't really have any bias against blown exhausts. They mostly just had a bias against any technology that a high-performing or dominating team had. Even then only if it were to fall under the 'aerodynamic purposes' clause, ie mass dampers, FRIC suspension etc, could they do anything about it. It was more about equalizing the field than any bias against blown exhausts.
Re: Why does FIA always ban blown exhausts?
Posted: 18 Mar 2019, 17:16
by Big Tea
Can I please jump on this bandwagon and ask about bleed air?
Is it A) allowed. And B) worthwhile?
There must be enough surplus from the charging, especially if the MGU-H is to be done away with.
If it is beneficial on airplane wings, is not the same (but reversed?) principle not useful for F1 Cars?
Can I please jump on this bandwagon and ask about bleed air?
Is it A) allowed. And B) worthwhile?
There must be enough surplus from the charging, especially if the MGU-H is to be done away with.
If it is beneficial on airplane wings, is not the same (but reversed?) principle not useful for F1 Cars?
Well, i think the rules do prevent that.
1.23 Engine :
The internal combustion engine including ancillaries and actuator systems necessary for its
proper function.
1.29 Compressor outlet :
A component containing a duct of closed cross section through which all air destined for
combustion exits any compressor.
5.14 Engine intake air :
5.14.1 With the exception of incidental leakage through joints or cooling ducts in the inlet system
(either into or out of the system), all air entering the engine must enter the bodywork through
a maximum of two inlets which are located:
a) Between the front of the cockpit entry template and a point 500mm forward of the rear
wheel centre line longitudinally.
b) No less than 200mm above the reference plane vertically.
c) On vertical cross‐sections parallel to C‐C.
Furthermore, any such inlets must be visible in their entirety when viewed from the front of
the car without the driver seated in the car and with the secondary roll structure and
associated fairing removed (see Article 15.2.6).
The compressor is an engine ancillary so you are not allowed to go somewhere else than to combustion chamber in the end with the air that passed the compressor. At least that's my interpretation of it.
Can I please jump on this bandwagon and ask about bleed air?
Is it A) allowed. And B) worthwhile?
There must be enough surplus from the charging, especially if the MGU-H is to be done away with.
If it is beneficial on airplane wings, is not the same (but reversed?) principle not useful for F1 Cars?
Well, i think the rules do prevent that.
1.23 Engine :
The internal combustion engine including ancillaries and actuator systems necessary for its
proper function.
1.29 Compressor outlet :
A component containing a duct of closed cross section through which all air destined for
combustion exits any compressor.
5.14 Engine intake air :
5.14.1 With the exception of incidental leakage through joints or cooling ducts in the inlet system
(either into or out of the system), all air entering the engine must enter the bodywork through
a maximum of two inlets which are located:
a) Between the front of the cockpit entry template and a point 500mm forward of the rear
wheel centre line longitudinally.
b) No less than 200mm above the reference plane vertically.
c) On vertical cross‐sections parallel to C‐C.
Furthermore, any such inlets must be visible in their entirety when viewed from the front of
the car without the driver seated in the car and with the secondary roll structure and
associated fairing removed (see Article 15.2.6).
The compressor is an engine ancillary so you are not allowed to go somewhere else than to combustion chamber in the end with the air that passed the compressor. At least that's my interpretation of it.
Thanks.
Would the compressor be allowed to drive an 'external stage' to generate airflow? It would be exhaust driven, but not be a part of the combustion product?
Or alternately, if there was enough benefit, a compressor directly off the battery. I am not too technical on aero, but what I was thinking along is the air equivalent of a surface effect ship (MALS) or to prevent/cause stall without directly 'blowing' the wing.
Can I please jump on this bandwagon and ask about bleed air?
Is it A) allowed. And B) worthwhile?
There must be enough surplus from the charging, especially if the MGU-H is to be done away with.
If it is beneficial on airplane wings, is not the same (but reversed?) principle not useful for F1 Cars?
Well, i think the rules do prevent that.
1.23 Engine :
The internal combustion engine including ancillaries and actuator systems necessary for its
proper function.
1.29 Compressor outlet :
A component containing a duct of closed cross section through which all air destined for
combustion exits any compressor.
5.14 Engine intake air :
5.14.1 With the exception of incidental leakage through joints or cooling ducts in the inlet system
(either into or out of the system), all air entering the engine must enter the bodywork through
a maximum of two inlets which are located:
a) Between the front of the cockpit entry template and a point 500mm forward of the rear
wheel centre line longitudinally.
b) No less than 200mm above the reference plane vertically.
c) On vertical cross‐sections parallel to C‐C.
Furthermore, any such inlets must be visible in their entirety when viewed from the front of
the car without the driver seated in the car and with the secondary roll structure and
associated fairing removed (see Article 15.2.6).
The compressor is an engine ancillary so you are not allowed to go somewhere else than to combustion chamber in the end with the air that passed the compressor. At least that's my interpretation of it.
Thanks.
Would the compressor be allowed to drive an 'external stage' to generate airflow? It would be exhaust driven, but not be a part of the combustion product?
Or alternately, if there was enough benefit, a compressor directly off the battery. I am not too technical on aero, but what I was thinking along is the air equivalent of a surface effect ship (MALS) or to prevent/cause stall without directly 'blowing' the wing.
A further regulation:
5.8.1 With the exception of incidental leakage through joints (either into or out of the system) and power unit breather fluids, all and only the fluids entering the compressor inlet and fuel injectors must exit from the engine exhaust system.
Would the compressor be allowed to drive an 'external stage' to generate airflow? It would be exhaust driven, but not be a part of the combustion product?
Or alternately, if there was enough benefit, a compressor directly off the battery. I am not too technical on aero, but what I was thinking along is the air equivalent of a surface effect ship (MALS) or to prevent/cause stall without directly 'blowing' the wing.
It's only one single stage compressor allowed. Also a compressor only for aero benefits would basically be active aerodynamics.
Re: Why does FIA always ban blown exhausts?
Posted: 18 Mar 2019, 20:09
by Big Tea
Thanks guys
Re: Why does FIA always ban blown exhausts?
Posted: 18 Mar 2019, 20:42
by j2004p
I’ve always seen it that the FIA tend to ban items which would likely result in an R&D arms race in that particular area which would massively benefit the better funded teams as they’d be able to pour far more resource into the technology.
