2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Vanja #66 wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:35 am
JordanMugen wrote:
Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:04 pm
How does the vane counter bouncing? :?:
Not sure, to be honest. It might produce a consistent vortex, providing the suction to prevent diffuser stall when the car gets too low. I think raising the outer edges will be the most important thing. Having them higher (and stiffer, but that's up to teams to decide how) will prevent excess mechanical floor sealing, which can lead to bouncing in corners.
Vanes also separate regions so helping to prevent stalled flow spreading, although the vane shown in the images above is probably not going to help that very much.
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godlameroso
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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The vortex caused by the vane is incidental, it's main purpose is to move air out of the way of the main air jet coming from the diffuser kick line. The two counter rotating vortices entrain some of the air that leaves the floor directly behind the plank.

The vanes add performance, to be sure, but they seem like a patchwork to make up for the stuff they're doing elsewhere. The central section/step plane isn't changing, just the throat of the tunnels, and the edge wing is being raised, and stiffness tests on upward deflection. That means the edge wing will still bend down and act as a skirt.

The changes don't seem well thought out to me. Hopefully the changes are axed, those diffuser strakes will create more outwash lower in the diffuser, which is antithesis to the new regulations.

One thing I don't understand is why teams aren't taking advantage of the fin you can put in the middle of the diffuser under the crash structure.

Image

Unless I'm reading the regulations wrong or this image is outdated, there's a lot of diffuser space that isn't being used for flow conditioning in the center.

Image
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Zynerji
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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mzso wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:20 am
Zynerji wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:29 am
Couldn't they mandate a 25mm skirt on the floor edge to solve some of this?
How is that supposed to be useful?
It would guarantee ride height and prevent choking by holding up the floor while under roll or compression.

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jjn9128
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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#aerogandalf
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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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godlameroso wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:18 pm


One thing I don't understand is why teams aren't taking advantage of the fin you can put in the middle of the diffuser under the crash structure.
Presumably because it doesn't bring any performance to the car in the current version of the regs. If it brought lap time, the teams would do it.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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godlameroso
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:44 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:18 pm


One thing I don't understand is why teams aren't taking advantage of the fin you can put in the middle of the diffuser under the crash structure.
Presumably because it doesn't bring any performance to the car in the current version of the regs. If it brought lap time, the teams would do it.
I figured as much. I also figured it would be a good way to guide airflow smoothly to the ceiling of the diffuser since that is the path the airflow takes anyway. However, the loss in diffuser volume probably makes it not worth it.
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mzso
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Zynerji wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:02 pm
mzso wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:20 am
Zynerji wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:29 am
Couldn't they mandate a 25mm skirt on the floor edge to solve some of this?
How is that supposed to be useful?
It would guarantee ride height and prevent choking by holding up the floor while under roll or compression.
The safety reasons for banning the skirts didn't change since the eighties.

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Vanja #66
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Well, that's cleared up now :mrgreen:
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

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Zynerji
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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mzso wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:51 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:02 pm
mzso wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:20 am

How is that supposed to be useful?
It would guarantee ride height and prevent choking by holding up the floor while under roll or compression.
The safety reasons for banning the skirts didn't change since the eighties.
I wasn't talking sliding skirts, more like what the 2016 post-season mule cars ran to stimulate 2017 df levels...

BlueCheetah66
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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godlameroso wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:18 pm


One thing I don't understand is why teams aren't taking advantage of the fin you can put in the middle of the diffuser under the crash structure.
I don't believe there actually is a fin written into the regulation. The only thing that I've ever seen about it is that one drawing of a potential 2022 floor with a couple of strakes towards the rear end. I'm not sure its actually legal, but I keep seeing that picture popping up

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godlameroso
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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BlueCheetah66 wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:06 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:18 pm


One thing I don't understand is why teams aren't taking advantage of the fin you can put in the middle of the diffuser under the crash structure.
I don't believe there actually is a fin written into the regulation. The only thing that I've ever seen about it is that one drawing of a potential 2022 floor with a couple of strakes towards the rear end. I'm not sure its actually legal, but I keep seeing that picture popping up
Image

I believe that blue section is free to sculpt. If this image is correct, then you can put a partition in the middle of the diffuser.

Most cars have heavy sculpting in the selected blue area.

Image
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mzso
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Zynerji wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 1:27 pm
mzso wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:51 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Tue Jul 19, 2022 7:02 pm


It would guarantee ride height and prevent choking by holding up the floor while under roll or compression.
The safety reasons for banning the skirts didn't change since the eighties.
I wasn't talking sliding skirts, more like what the 2016 post-season mule cars ran to stimulate 2017 df levels...
How would it be different from the floor edge then? Which is essentially a skirt that may or may not touch the ground. How would it help at all?

Tzk
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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godlameroso wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:05 pm
I believe that blue section is free to sculpt. If this image is correct, then you can put a partition in the middle of the diffuser.
It would still reduce the area inside the diffusor... I'd assume that as long as teams don't have a flow issue inside the diffusor, they'll try to avoid using vanes as much as possible to keep the expansion volume as high as possible.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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Tzk wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 5:26 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:05 pm
I believe that blue section is free to sculpt. If this image is correct, then you can put a partition in the middle of the diffuser.
It would still reduce the area inside the diffusor... I'd assume that as long as teams don't have a flow issue inside the diffusor, they'll try to avoid using vanes as much as possible to keep the expansion volume as high as possible.
If the expansion volume is too large you get a lot of losses due to flow separation. Also the 2021 regulations made the vanes in the diffuser smaller than 2020, yet 2020 cars had more downforce.

I feel the cars have too much diffuser area as is, and more can be gained by trading some volume for careful sculpting. Most teams designs seem to agree with my assessment.

Furthermore you don't have to have a thick rectangular partition using all the volume. The shaded blue region is an area where you may place bodywork, it doesn't have to occupy the volume entirely. You could put a fin there if you wanted, now whether it's a good idea or not is something that's left to debate.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2022 Aerodynamic Regulations Thread

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godlameroso wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 5:42 pm


I feel the cars have too much diffuser area as is, and more can be gained by trading some volume for careful sculpting. Most teams designs seem to agree with my assessment.
The teams have tried to introduce some lateral outflow where the rules allow some leeway - the rules have tried to prevent lateral expansion of the diffuser for a good reason, but the top corner of the diffuser is a "free volume" - presumably to allow the teams to fine tune the shape of their diffusers. That most have chosen to use this volume to introduce lateral flow is not suprising.
Furthermore you don't have to have a thick rectangular partition using all the volume. The shaded blue region is an area where you may place bodywork, it doesn't have to occupy the volume entirely. You could put a fin there if you wanted, now whether it's a good idea or not is something that's left to debate.
As none of the teams have put anything in that volume, we can probably surmise that there is nothing to be gained by doing so. Perhaps as the cars develop in front of the diffuser, work in this area will prove fruitful, but it would appear at this stage in the rules, this volume is better left empty of bodywork.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"