2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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SiLo
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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I think it might be worth both drivers running in slipstream for one quick lap. Would be more valuable than two runs IMO
Felipe Baby!

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jjn9128
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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Haas running/testing a single plane rear wing. I've not seen that for decades!

https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/1169532459006025728
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

auv
auv
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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jjn9128 wrote:
05 Sep 2019, 12:22
Haas running/testing a single plane rear wing. I've not seen that for decades!

https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/1169532459006025728
Image

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jjn9128
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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Looking at it again it has the DRS actuator... might be wrong... and I think the rules say they need 2 elements :oops:
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

sosic2121
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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SiLo wrote:
04 Sep 2019, 16:29
If he is already in front of Vettel I think he would win that race comfortably.
IMO saddest part is that you are right. Advantage that Mercedes has, mostly from thin gauge tires is just incredible. Again IMO, pirelli really ruined this season.

Monza prediction, Ferrari front row, Hamilton win.

bosyber
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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jjn9128 wrote:
05 Sep 2019, 12:29
Looking at it again it has the DRS actuator... might be wrong... and I think the rules say they need 2 elements :oops:
I think it might have a short lower/front element that ends more or less just after the lowest point we see in the bend there, and then a shallow flap about 15-20 cm behind that.

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dans79
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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sosic2121 wrote:
05 Sep 2019, 12:37
IMO saddest part is that you are right. Advantage that Mercedes has, mostly from thin gauge tires is just incredible. Again IMO, pirelli really ruined this season.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Jester Maroc
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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sosic2121 wrote:
05 Sep 2019, 12:37
SiLo wrote:
04 Sep 2019, 16:29
If he is already in front of Vettel I think he would win that race comfortably.
IMO saddest part is that you are right. Advantage that Mercedes has, mostly from thin gauge tires is just incredible. Again IMO, pirelli really ruined this season.

Monza prediction, Ferrari front row, Hamilton win.
This tire issue being raised over and over is getting "tiresome" :D Please remember the teams all ran the tires through rigorous tests during the winter and nobody raised any issues or complained about Pirelli's decision to go for the thinner gauge. Vettel himself said the thinner gauge tires are better.

Mercedes, Mclaren, Torro Rosso have simply done a better job at designing a good car around the tire characteristics. Pirelli is an Italian company after all, why would they design a tire specifically to hinder Ferrari?
Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions. ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

Midi
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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[/quote]

This tire issue being raised over and over is getting "tiresome" :D Please remember the teams all ran the tires through rigorous tests during the winter and nobody raised any issues or complained about Pirelli's decision to go for the thinner gauge. Vettel himself said the thinner gauge tires are better.

Mercedes, Mclaren, Torro Rosso have simply done a better job at designing a good car around the tire characteristics. Pirelli is an Italian company after all, why would they design a tire specifically to hinder Ferrari?
[/quote]

I understand that this discussion is "tiresome" ;) for most Merc fans. However no one is denying the fact that Merc has built a car that is better with these tires. The question is how the relative performances of the top teams would have been different if the 2018 tires would still have been used. Fact is that in 2018 Merc has had more tire related problems relative to the other top teams and in comparison to 2019. So I don't think its fair to dismiss the notion that these tires have helped Merc to be so dominant.

And the argument that Vettel has indicated that the thinner gauge tires are also better for Ferrari is taken out of proportion. He has stated after a test after the 2018 Barcelona race that Ferrari would have had more issues with the normal tires compared to the thinner gauge tires on THAT particular track in 2018. He has said nothing regarding other tracks or if Merc would have had even bigger issues with the normal gauge tires.

The decision of Pirelli to use the thinner gauge tires for all races in 2019 was taken after the final test session in 2018. At this stage the design of the 2019 cars were already in completion stage. This for me is the reason this choice of Pirelli is a little fishy. And yes Pirelli is Italian but which company do you think orders more tires on a yearly bases FCA or Daimler Benz?

Midi
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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https://www.flickr.com/photos/stephenpoole/34883342711

See this is the proof of this conspiracy ;)

All kidding aside I understand this discussion leads nowhere as we will never know what would have been. All kudos to Merc for their current performance. I just hope that the tires for next year are less of a performance differentiator . Or that they stay the same in construction more or less so that all teams know what to design for.

Wynters
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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Perhaps if Ferrari did a better job, they wouldn't be so vulnerable to all these global conspiracies (Pirelli/FIA/Stewards/all Mercedes engine customers/all Mercedes programme drivers/the quality of the asphalt/the weather/etc/etc ad nauseam)?

It's not as if all these threads are filled with hundreds of comments about how unbeatable both their drivers are, how consistently excellent their strategies are, how they've nailed every regulation change, how amazing their in-season development is or how stable and consistent their team membership has been. The primary reason Mercedes have kept winning is because their only competitors keep dropping the ball with such consistent frequency that we no longer need atomic clocks to mark time, we can just use Ferrari cock-ups. Hamilton's continual success isn't down to being at Mercedes, it's down to not being at Red Bull or Ferrari (see Rosberg for further details).

Midi
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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Wynters wrote:
05 Sep 2019, 16:21
Perhaps if Ferrari did a better job, they wouldn't be so vulnerable to all these global conspiracies (Pirelli/FIA/Stewards/all Mercedes engine customers/all Mercedes programme drivers/the quality of the asphalt/the weather/etc/etc ad nauseam)?

It's not as if all these threads are filled with hundreds of comments about how unbeatable both their drivers are, how consistently excellent their strategies are, how they've nailed every regulation change, how amazing their in-season development is or how stable and consistent their team membership has been. The primary reason Mercedes have kept winning is because their only competitors keep dropping the ball with such consistent frequency that we no longer need atomic clocks to mark time, we can just use Ferrari cock-ups. Hamilton's continual success isn't down to being at Mercedes, it's down to not being at Red Bull or Ferrari (see Rosberg for further details).
Ofcourse you are right over the whole but I do think right now Ferrari and Red Bull can only win at certain types of tracks and if they are 100% faultless on the execution side whereas Mercedes has a much bigger window of operation and even some faults in Quali (Hamilton this year is mostly amazing in races but his quali's have been a bit better in the past) are not preventing them to win. Again this takes nothing away of the fact that Merc excels on the strategy and execution of races.

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Zynerji
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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Everyone wants to be involved with setting all- time records, and F1 over the last few years feels that way with Mercedes, for sure.

Alexf1
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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From what I hear its not the thinner tyres alone, its the combo of thinner tyres and the stiffer carcass.

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Phil
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Re: 2019 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 06 - 08

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Midi wrote:
05 Sep 2019, 16:31
Ofcourse you are right over the whole but I do think right now Ferrari and Red Bull can only win at certain types of tracks and if they are 100% faultless on the execution side whereas Mercedes has a much bigger window of operation and even some faults in Quali (Hamilton this year is mostly amazing in races but his quali's have been a bit better in the past) are not preventing them to win.
That is one way to look at it. The other way to look at it, is that Mercedes have been usually the team with the “narrow” operating window and have simply invested more into solving exactly that weakness and successfully turned it into a strength, whereas Ferrari have pretty much gone in the opposite direction.

To be a bit more accurate; Ferrari have opted (consciously or not) for a design and aero approach that resulted in overall less downforce while being more efficient. Mercedes on the other hand have gone the opposite in tackling the 2019 front wing regs, perhaps also because it already suited their car, to go with a design that offers more ultimate downforce but at the expense of increased drag.

It’s hard to argue Mercedes have not produced the ‘stronger’ package for the majority of races this year, but one would also have to admit that with or without that advantage, Ferrari have let a lot of points on the table - in other words - races that they should have won, but didnt:

- Bahrain / Leclerc reliability and Vettel error
- Baku / both drivers with errors
- Canada / Vettel with error
- Austria / Ferrari strategy and forgetting about Verstappen

Adding to the victory in Spa and that could have easily been 5 victories in the 13 races so far. Sure, the fact that both Vettel and Leclerc have made mistakes means that even if those 4 races had gone differently, Hamilton, as consistent and reliably as he is performing, would probably still be leading the WDC, but Mercedes might not seem as dominant as it looks. Certainly not to the degree that it warrants bringing up the tires that supposedly favor Mercedes.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

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