[ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

[tangodjango]

In addition when was the last time the guy in the best car DIDN’T win a WDC? There seems to be some romantic notion that pre 2013 there were Cinderella stories going on all over the place. Arguably it was 2008, but before that you’ve got to go a long way back.

2007 and 2008. The McLaren was probably slightly the better car in 2007, the Ferrari the better car, again slightly, in 2008. Kimi won in 2007 because McLaren dropped the ball. Hamilton won in 2008 because Ferrari did likewise. In both years the cars were closely matched with the marginally better car ending up second.

I actually feel Ferrari had the better car overall in both years. In 2007 it was the level of Alonso and Hamilton spurred on by each other that made it seem so good, which is partially borne out by the performance levels of Kimi and Massa against Alonso. To be fair 2003-2005 Kimi was probably on that level too.

[dans79]

Bottas has the right temperament. He's not hothead who will do anything rash or stupid to drop points and jeopardise the WCC.

Yep, they want to avoid this as much as possible!

[Wass85]

Bottas has the right temperament. He's not hothead who will do anything rash or stupid to drop points and jeopardise the WCC.

Yep, they want to avoid this as much as possible!

Exactly so they employ a second driver who's not as talented as their number 1 driver, no need to beat around the bush.

Merc clearly don't want another Rosberg to upset team spirit.

[El Scorchio]

Bottas has the right temperament. He's not hothead who will do anything rash or stupid to drop points and jeopardise the WCC.

Yep, they want to avoid this as much as possible!

Exactly that, or just pick one of the many incidents between RBR or Ferrari drivers in the last decade which has resulted in stupid DNFs or double DNFs for the teams. Just chucking Driver and Constructor points straight in the bin. And which cool headed team has almost always profited from such incidents?

[dans79]

Exactly so they employ a second driver who's not as talented as their number 1 driver, no need to beat around the bush.

I don't think they would have an issue with two equally talented drivers. what they don't want are drivers hurting the team as a whole by playing mind games, being overly political, overly aggressive on track, or working around data sharing etc.

[Wass85]

Exactly so they employ a second driver who's not as talented as their number 1 driver, no need to beat around the bush.

I don't think they would have an issue with two equally talented drivers. what they don't want are drivers hurting the team as a whole by playing mind games, being overly political, overly aggressive on track, or working around data sharing etc.

It would almost certainly end up that way though in the end.

[dans79]

Exactly so they employ a second driver who's not as talented as their number 1 driver, no need to beat around the bush.

I don't think they would have an issue with two equally talented drivers. what they don't want are drivers hurting the team as a whole by playing mind games, being overly political, overly aggressive on track, or working around data sharing etc.

It would almost certainly end up that way though in the end.

Possibly, but I think Ricciardo is a good example of someone who isn't going to go to far.

[Big Tea]

Bottas has the right temperament. He's not hothead who will do anything rash or stupid to drop points and jeopardise the WCC.

Yep, they want to avoid this as much as possible!

Exactly so they employ a second driver who's not as talented as their number 1 driver, no need to beat around the bush.

Merc clearly don't want another Rosberg to upset team spirit.

I doubt anyone will argue that point with you, but then again, who is as good as their no1 driver?

Not sure of others motives, but my motive is Bottas is not a poor quality driver who can be replaced by whoever is in the job centre on that day.
There are very few who could do the job as well as he does, and on a personal note, very few who would beat him regularly in the same car, which ever car it is.

I know it is two different points, but to me they overlap.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Where is all this almost hatred towards Bottas coming from? I think he’s a perfect teammate for Hamilton. And Hamilton, after all the rivals he had next to him in the same car. With his status consistency and accomplishments he finally doesn’t need to look over his shoulder in the team.

In order for people to denigrate Hamilton's performance, they first have to make Bottas look rubbish, a lapdog etc.

Exactly

BOT is performing better than ROS did with less experience both in the team and in general.

[ENGINE TUNER]

Where is all this almost hatred towards Bottas coming from? I think he’s a perfect teammate for Hamilton. And Hamilton, after all the rivals he had next to him in the same car. With his status consistency and accomplishments he finally doesn’t need to look over his shoulder in the team.

In order for people to denigrate Hamilton's performance, they first have to make Bottas look rubbish, a lapdog etc.

In order for people to glorify Hamilton's performance, they first have to make Bottas look good, an equal competitor etc.

The guy got outqualified by half a second in Belgium, by more than a second in a wet Styrian GP. Can't keep up with Hamilton once he is ahead. Fluffs the starts, despite having a comfortable second position to then lose two GPs. Despite having a dominant car, is still behind Verstappen.

Senna outqualified Prost by over 1.4s IN MONACO... and outqualled him by over .5s OVER THE ENTIRE 88 SEASON AVERAGE. ROS was outqualled by far more than .5s on many occasions, and fluffed many starts. Get some perspective

[e30ernest]

In order for people to denigrate Hamilton's performance, they first have to make Bottas look rubbish, a lapdog etc.

In order for people to glorify Hamilton's performance, they first have to make Bottas look good, an equal competitor etc.

The guy got outqualified by half a second in Belgium, by more than a second in a wet Styrian GP. Can't keep up with Hamilton once he is ahead. Fluffs the starts, despite having a comfortable second position to then lose two GPs. Despite having a dominant car, is still behind Verstappen.

Senna outqualified Prost by over 1.4s IN MONACO... and outqualled him by over .5s OVER THE ENTIRE 88 SEASON AVERAGE. ROS was outqualled by far more than .5s on many occasions, and fluffed many starts. Get some perspective

I think Rosberg was better on the races itself than Bottas ever was though. Bottas seems to get stuck on whatever place he was at after the first 5 laps of a race. Rosberg on the other hand would still be able to fight back up to the front. The lack of tenacity on Bottas' part is holding him back IMO.

[erudite450]

Massa this, massa that. Massa in the Williams was not much of anything. He isn’t in FE Either.

Bottas can be quite quick in qualy. Decent race pace. Not special when it comes to race craft.
Hamilton can be astounding in qualy, can fly on pace, knows exactly what he is doing with race craft.

What I think is funny, and at the same time tiring, is one day Bottas is good, the other day he is Bad, and all just what is fitting to the line of thought that is being supported.

Why can’t we just be real. Just say what you really think of him deep down, not what is fitting to the story line that is being sold.

OK, deep down, when Merc were looking for a second driver, I said Go for Bottas. And I have not changed my mind.
Max is probably better than him, but I do not think anyone other than Lewis is sure to beat him over a year.
Besides how well he fits in the team while others would bring strife.

Leclerc would beat him, so would Vettel, Ricciardo, Russell, all IMO.

About Danny Ric, you might want to check 2008 Formula Renault 2.0 Eurocup.

[Wass85]

OK, deep down, when Merc were looking for a second driver, I said Go for Bottas. And I have not changed my mind.
Max is probably better than him, but I do not think anyone other than Lewis is sure to beat him over a year.
Besides how well he fits in the team while others would bring strife.

Leclerc would beat him, so would Vettel, Ricciardo, Russell, all IMO.

About Danny Ric, you might want to check 2008 Formula Renault 2.0 Eurocup.

That does not guarantee future superiority in F1.

[Big Tea]

OK, deep down, when Merc were looking for a second driver, I said Go for Bottas. And I have not changed my mind.
Max is probably better than him, but I do not think anyone other than Lewis is sure to beat him over a year.
Besides how well he fits in the team while others would bring strife.

Leclerc would beat him, so would Vettel, Ricciardo, Russell, all IMO.

About Danny Ric, you might want to check 2008 Formula Renault 2.0 Eurocup.

Close at VB 139pts DR 136pts 1dnf each. TBH I do not know the teams or team mates, but DR's team finished with 259 and VB's team with 22o, so seems to indicate a better team for DR.

As DeResta keeps reminding us he thumped Vettel in a lower series.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Euro ... enault_2.0

[erudite450]

Leclerc would beat him, so would Vettel, Ricciardo, Russell, all IMO.

About Danny Ric, you might want to check 2008 Formula Renault 2.0 Eurocup.

That does not guarantee future superiority in F1.

Shouldn't you be telling yourself that?! How did you surmise that Danny Ric is better when the only available evidence tells us that Bottas is in fact quicker. I'm not saying that Bottas is a 'superior' driver but you should not have Ricciardo in the list of drivers better than Bottas until we see them in equal machinery in F1.

EDIT: Omission.