[ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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tangodjango
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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Yeah I agree. If Vettel can't improve his form and Stroll keeps performing like this along with his bad luck while Perez signs for Red Bull and does well then it's going to be egg on their face. After all the 'pink Mercedes' hype this year they have had stunningly poor execution of their races. I wouldn't be surprised to see AM/RP behind Merc/RBR/Ferrari/McLaren and Renault next year.
“Hamilton’s talent is perhaps even more than that of Ayrton or Schumacher or Fernando." - Rubens Barrichello

billamend
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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Unpopular opinion: Otmar is not a good team principal.

LHamilton
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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billamend wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:42 pm
Unpopular opinion: Otmar is not a good team principal.
Not to be like that, but if you gonna say something like that, you would have to give a reasoning as to why. Otherwise, we go from a discussion to just bashing an individual, and I don't think that's in line with the forum policies.

NAPI10
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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billamend wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:42 pm
Unpopular opinion: Otmar is not a good team principal.
Otmar is responsible to certain degree but does he has freedom/power to take tough decisions

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Big Tea
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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NAPI10 wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:14 pm
billamend wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 4:42 pm
Unpopular opinion: Otmar is not a good team principal.
Otmar is responsible to certain degree but does he has freedom/power to take tough decisions
Difficult to know which decisions he takes.

He has engineering staff with heads, he has strategy staff, he has funding and commitments sponsors and owners.

I would not have thought he made arbitrary decisions
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raymondu999
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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Did RP make recent changes to race engineering/strategy teams?

It seems so odd to me that they were usually giant-killers, operating their mid-level machinery to podiums via operational effectiveness and good race execution. But that hasn’t been the case this year; they’ve had more podiums with lesser machinery than this year with better machinery. Sure RB and Merc seem to have been more consistent to block out the top 3 but their pitstop strategy last race, for example, seems (to my outsider perspective at the time) to be somewhat questionable
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basti313
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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raymondu999 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:30 am
Sure RB and Merc seem to have been more consistent to block out the top 3 but their pitstop strategy last race, for example, seems (to my outsider perspective at the time) to be somewhat questionable
How that?
Stroll is out of sight..no need to discuss.
Perez was stopped for his first stop at the very perfect time. One lap later Ric would have been in the window/ahead. They extended the first stint perfectly and without the SC there would have been no discussion.

At the SC they were a sitting duck. They actually had a 8sec lead, but the pitlane is very long...so it was not enough as usually. If they would not have pitted and the cars behind would have pitted, they would have been in a very bad situation. On the other hand the trigger for the other cars was bigger to pit.

I think it was pure luck that the old tires on the Renault worked still that good...and Perez could not make use of the Softs.Maybe car setup/design, the Merc was always a bit hard in following similar pace cars.

NAPI10
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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basti313 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:45 am
raymondu999 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:30 am
Sure RB and Merc seem to have been more consistent to block out the top 3 but their pitstop strategy last race, for example, seems (to my outsider perspective at the time) to be somewhat questionable
How that?
Stroll is out of sight..no need to discuss.
Perez was stopped for his first stop at the very perfect time. One lap later Ric would have been in the window/ahead. They extended the first stint perfectly and without the SC there would have been no discussion.

At the SC they were a sitting duck. They actually had a 8sec lead, but the pitlane is very long...so it was not enough as usually. If they would not have pitted and the cars behind would have pitted, they would have been in a very bad situation. On the other hand the trigger for the other cars was bigger to pit.

I think it was pure luck that the old tires on the Renault worked still that good...and Perez could not make use of the Softs.Maybe car setup/design, the Merc was always a bit hard in following similar pace cars.
Perez doesn't share the same view point and he made some valid points - Car struggling for straight-line speed,Track is extremly tricky to overtake without taking risk,Even with bigger tire performance differnce he couldn't overtake Kimi.It doesn't make sence to give track poisition specialy on this track .

Personally,I am not that ciritical of Team's strategy this race; it was 50-50 & it could have gone either way.My critic is on overall team performace during this season ; they simply wasted a great package.Team is definitly missing discipline in all departments from the days of 'Force India'.

thestig84
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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raymondu999 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:30 am
Did RP make recent changes to race engineering/strategy teams?

It seems so odd to me that they were usually giant-killers, operating their mid-level machinery to podiums via operational effectiveness and good race execution. But that hasn’t been the case this year; they’ve had more podiums with lesser machinery than this year with better machinery. Sure RB and Merc seem to have been more consistent to block out the top 3 but their pitstop strategy last race, for example, seems (to my outsider perspective at the time) to be somewhat questionable
I cant remember details of each time they pulled a good result out the bag but perhaps they looked better in the past because they were more often in a position with less to lose and could roll the dice. This gave the impression they were really brilliant on the occasions it works and nobody noticed or cared if it didnt work and they lost 9th or similar gambling.

Now they are a bit more hesitant with more to lose and suddenly they are learning its not quite so easy.

NAPI10
NAPI10
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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Lawrence Stroll is moving lots of pieces in the background (potentially poaching Adrian Newey)-
https://www.grandprix247.com/2020/11/02 ... rainmaker/

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raymondu999
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Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:31 am

Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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That would indeed be an interesting development. One I would think Vettel and Stroll have a common agreement in.

More on this story:
https://www.grandprix247.com/2020/11/02 ... on-martin/
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basti313
basti313
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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NAPI10 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:17 pm
basti313 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:45 am
raymondu999 wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:30 am
Sure RB and Merc seem to have been more consistent to block out the top 3 but their pitstop strategy last race, for example, seems (to my outsider perspective at the time) to be somewhat questionable
How that?
Stroll is out of sight..no need to discuss.
Perez was stopped for his first stop at the very perfect time. One lap later Ric would have been in the window/ahead. They extended the first stint perfectly and without the SC there would have been no discussion.

At the SC they were a sitting duck. They actually had a 8sec lead, but the pitlane is very long...so it was not enough as usually. If they would not have pitted and the cars behind would have pitted, they would have been in a very bad situation. On the other hand the trigger for the other cars was bigger to pit.

I think it was pure luck that the old tires on the Renault worked still that good...and Perez could not make use of the Softs.Maybe car setup/design, the Merc was always a bit hard in following similar pace cars.
Perez doesn't share the same view point and he made some valid points - Car struggling for straight-line speed,Track is extremly tricky to overtake without taking risk,Even with bigger tire performance differnce he couldn't overtake Kimi.It doesn't make sence to give track poisition specialy on this track .

Personally,I am not that ciritical of Team's strategy this race; it was 50-50 & it could have gone either way.My critic is on overall team performace during this season ; they simply wasted a great package.Team is definitly missing discipline in all departments from the days of 'Force India'.
Well...I think we need the excuse from Perez with a pinch of salt. If we look at how he exited the corner and how Kvyat rocketed past him and finally had the same top speed as Albon and him...it was not top speed, it was a bad exit.
Perez simply could not benefit from the cold tires the others ahead had in the first lap after the SC. The reason for this...rather cold tires as well. But in any case he neither prepared his tires well nor did he anticipate a bad exit of Albon ahead.

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Big Tea
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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NAPI10 wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:27 am
Lawrence Stroll is moving lots of pieces in the background (potentially poaching Adrian Newey)-
https://www.grandprix247.com/2020/11/02 ... rainmaker/
Step forward a hybrid compatriot of the porch cup. The Aston Martin Hybrid cup? All the right connections and all the right clientele for Aston
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

NAPI10
NAPI10
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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Instead of putting the team's campaign n driver's wellbeing on line; why can't RP giving enough rest to Lance to recover physically & mentally -
https://alkhaleejtoday.co/sport/5269408 ... 80%99.html

Employee Hulk for rest of the campaign(5 races) to manage risk.

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Racer X
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Re: [ 2020 ] Racing Point F1 Team - Mercedes

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NAPI10 wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:12 pm
Instead of putting the team's campaign n driver's wellbeing on line; why can't RP giving enough rest to Lance to recover physically & mentally -
https://alkhaleejtoday.co/sport/5269408 ... 80%99.html

Employee Hulk for rest of the campaign(5 races) to manage risk.
Thats not how this works Lance is the driver and they need to help him be at his best.
If Lance cant handle the day to day of being an F1 driver NORMALY he would not return the followins season.
But since hes the owner of the team it would just cement peoples perception that he does not belong in F1.

Which if he doesnt know he will be reminded of it by Toto/Lawrence.
I mean clearly Lance does not care about so many things but when it starts to affect the value of their investment

Lawrence and Toto will care and then make Lance man up.

Because they cant have the brands image being tied to a spoiled brat who does not belong in F1.
He needs to earn his place and prove people wrong. Clean up his image that sort of thing.
Which last i heard Toto Wolf and others are trying to justify as unfair.
So Lance needing a break would pretty much prove people right.
I dont think Lance wants that its not good for the Aston Martin Brand they so badly want to build up.


Right now hes okey its okey to have a dip in performance everyone has off days. But the important thing for Aston/Toto/& the Overall Stroll image is for him to focus recover and justify his seat to the public image.

If he could drive a bit more like Perez that would be great.

Lets not forget Sergio used to also have that same image problem.
Perez was also once called a "pay driver" it took Sergio some time to get rid of that title and some still call him a pay driver. So you cant please everyone but Lance does need to give his supporters reasons to back him. Along with shutting some people up.

He would be stupid to take a small personal vacation during the season.
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