Ferrari SF1000

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
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Alakshendra
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Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:48 pm

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:37 pm
Alakshendra wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:52 pm
henry wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:24 pm


In this fuel restricted, efficiency formula, gains are compounded.

In qualifying if you go faster you get to run the higher PU modes for a greater percentage of the lap which makes you even faster.

In the race you can run lower fuel which in turn means faster lap times, or the same lap times with lower stress on PU, tyres and brakes. Which means shorter race time which is the objective.

It doesn’t matter if the improved lap time comes from better aero or PU or driver. The faster you go the faster you can go.
But don't you think all run on high PU for qualifying and still whole grid is like 1 sec behind the merc. What i feel is how they are so good without doing nothing wrong. When ferrari was quick just at straights whole merc started to make hell lot of noise but here both merc's being 1 sec fast and still no one even raises a question?
Shows you have not paid attention to what really was Ferrari's straight line speed advantage.

The speed advantage when viewed from GPS was in accelaration phase and over a lap their advantage cannot to equated or was more than the amount of ERS deployment. (It is discussed thoroughly in Ferrari engine thread, please check that)

And PS: it was not Mercedes who found it, it was RBR team who got the GPS correlates
and it was not just Mercedes who make hell lot of noise but it was every team on the grid.
Please don't mind but i find your answer a bit biased towards mercedes which is completely fine, but same questions are raised by many in merc w11 forum as well, when a car is 1 sec faster then whole grid then its natural to think, and again please don't get offended, i just said what i felt.

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siskue2005
70
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Alakshendra wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:02 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:37 pm
Alakshendra wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:52 pm

But don't you think all run on high PU for qualifying and still whole grid is like 1 sec behind the merc. What i feel is how they are so good without doing nothing wrong. When ferrari was quick just at straights whole merc started to make hell lot of noise but here both merc's being 1 sec fast and still no one even raises a question?
Shows you have not paid attention to what really was Ferrari's straight line speed advantage.

The speed advantage when viewed from GPS was in accelaration phase and over a lap their advantage cannot to equated or was more than the amount of ERS deployment. (It is discussed thoroughly in Ferrari engine thread, please check that)

And PS: it was not Mercedes who found it, it was RBR team who got the GPS correlates
and it was not just Mercedes who make hell lot of noise but it was every team on the grid.
Please don't mind but i find your answer a bit biased towards mercedes which is completely fine, but same questions are raised by many in merc w11 forum as well, when a car is 1 sec faster then whole grid then its natural to think, and again please don't get offended, i just said what i felt.
This is not the first instance in f1 history, when a LEGAL car in 1 or even 2 sec faster than the next team on a particular track. If you find anything unusual please specify what that is the Mercedes car thread (not here). Simply repeating the same unfounded accusations 10 times in the same thread wont make it true.

And if you find my answers biased, please check the Ferrari engine thread to get the exact same answers there.

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Alakshendra
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Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:48 pm

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:15 pm
Alakshendra wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:02 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:37 pm


Shows you have not paid attention to what really was Ferrari's straight line speed advantage.

The speed advantage when viewed from GPS was in accelaration phase and over a lap their advantage cannot to equated or was more than the amount of ERS deployment. (It is discussed thoroughly in Ferrari engine thread, please check that)

And PS: it was not Mercedes who found it, it was RBR team who got the GPS correlates
and it was not just Mercedes who make hell lot of noise but it was every team on the grid.
Please don't mind but i find your answer a bit biased towards mercedes which is completely fine, but same questions are raised by many in merc w11 forum as well, when a car is 1 sec faster then whole grid then its natural to think, and again please don't get offended, i just said what i felt.
This is not the first instance in f1 history, when a LEGAL car in 1 or even 2 sec faster than the next team on a particular track. If you find anything unusual please specify what that is the Mercedes car thread (not here). Simply repeating the same unfounded accusations 10 times in the same thread wont make it true.

And if you find my answers biased, please check the Ferrari engine thread to get the exact same answers there.
Nop I had no intention of putting any blame on the merc, but I am a mechanical engineer myself and this kind of gain did make me curious, i just wanted to understand how is that even possible since top engineers work for F1 teams. It's true i am a ferrari supporter and i did find your answer biased. Personally speaking it was just a question and if you really find it wrong then simply ignore the comment.

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siskue2005
70
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Alakshendra wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:22 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:15 pm
Alakshendra wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:02 pm


Please don't mind but i find your answer a bit biased towards mercedes which is completely fine, but same questions are raised by many in merc w11 forum as well, when a car is 1 sec faster then whole grid then its natural to think, and again please don't get offended, i just said what i felt.
This is not the first instance in f1 history, when a LEGAL car in 1 or even 2 sec faster than the next team on a particular track. If you find anything unusual please specify what that is the Mercedes car thread (not here). Simply repeating the same unfounded accusations 10 times in the same thread wont make it true.

And if you find my answers biased, please check the Ferrari engine thread to get the exact same answers there.
Nop I had no intention of putting any blame on the merc, but I am a mechanical engineer myself and this kind of gain did make me curious, i just wanted to understand how is that even possible since top engineers work for F1 teams. It's true i am a ferrari supporter and i did find your answer biased. Personally speaking it was just a question and if you really find it wrong then simply ignore the comment.
Whatever your doubts are please talk in Mercedes thread, this is Ferrari thread, we are already on thin ice. If you are a mechanical engineer then you do know the variables involved in the car and how even a 10 sec gap is possible in F1 where unlimited resources and unlimited money is available

w1Y
w1Y
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Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:49 am

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Back on topic, the ferrari is embarrassing. It got absolutely mugged on the straights by Honda and Renault powered cars which was unthinkable precious years. They need to work out how to get more power and quick.

This high drag philosophy cant have just come about this year either. Has their PU been masking inefficient aero this whole time.

CRazyLemon
CRazyLemon
4
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:22 pm

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Based on this engine freeze and token system, is Ferrari able to do engine development the entire year in order to introduce a new engine for 2021 or are they limited on how much they can change? As I understand it, the token system is just for chassis changes. If they're limited on engine development, then surely Ferrari are pretty much stuck with a sub par engine till 2025?

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Alakshendra
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Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:48 pm

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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CRazyLemon wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:12 pm
Based on this engine freeze and token system, is Ferrari able to do engine development the entire year in order to introduce a new engine for 2021 or are they limited on how much they can change? As I understand it, the token system is just for chassis changes. If they're limited on engine development, then surely Ferrari are pretty much stuck with a sub par engine till 2025?
I was checking some news and found that now toto is also focusing on development of Aston martin, so it does means everyone is now focusing on 2022 instead of 2021, personally i think its already to late for Ferrari for 2021 and it will help if they bring new talent specifically to work on 2022 project and not waste any more time or resources for 2021.

Manfer
Manfer
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Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:45 am

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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CRazyLemon wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:12 pm
Based on this engine freeze and token system, is Ferrari able to do engine development the entire year in order to introduce a new engine for 2021 or are they limited on how much they can change? As I understand it, the token system is just for chassis changes. If they're limited on engine development, then surely Ferrari are pretty much stuck with a sub par engine till 2025?
They can develop as much as they want. I believe they have to use tokens to introduce the updates and these have to decided the previous year. So next year's engine will be better than the current one, but what we do not know is how badly the TD's have affected the development. If Ferrari has to investigate new processes/ideas, then its going to be painful few years.

LM10
LM10
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Manfer wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:17 pm
CRazyLemon wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:12 pm
Based on this engine freeze and token system, is Ferrari able to do engine development the entire year in order to introduce a new engine for 2021 or are they limited on how much they can change? As I understand it, the token system is just for chassis changes. If they're limited on engine development, then surely Ferrari are pretty much stuck with a sub par engine till 2025?
They can develop as much as they want. I believe they have to use tokens to introduce the updates and these have to decided the previous year. So next year's engine will be better than the current one, but what we do not know is how badly the TD's have affected the development. If Ferrari has to investigate new processes/ideas, then its going to be painful few years.
Good thing of Ferrari being embarrassingly slow this season is that they kind of have 2 years time to come up with a very good PU.
2022 is the season they need to aim for regarding development. Wether 2021’s PU will be strong or not won’t make a big difference due to Ferrari being that far behind with their current chassis anyway. I’d put almost the entire budget into PU development now because that will be on the car until 2025.

As a Ferrari fan I’ve written off next season, so should do others as well. People need to be patient and strong now. Only a painful 2020-2021 period would mean a competitive Ferrari from 2022 on. If Ferrari tries to push and make their fans be happier this and next season, they will do a big mistake. Just focus on 2022. I’d even happily accept them being dead end last this season in order to have more wind tunnel and CFD time.

Xwang
Xwang
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Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:12 am

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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I'm starting to think that this season they had focused on 2021 before they even started designing the SF1000 and I think it's wrong to do it because instead they should start a development program that gradually leads to having a winning team and a car, nor anticipating developments for the the ardor of wanting to win when you are not yet in a position to do so neither remaining motionless and uneven until the chosen season.
What I mean is that they should try to take development paths that lead to the ultimate goal (if they need three years to have a winning engine, they should follow that path, but in the meantime they should add the updates that become available and not keep the same engine until the new one arrives, otherwise they cannot understand in time what their competitive level is).
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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This SF1000 has suffered from the same correlation issues asthe SF90. You guys must remember that the two cars are basically the same externally. This one has better packaging and that's about it. I do concur that Ferrari were throwing their eggs into the then 2021 regulations.
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Harvester
Harvester
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:25 am
This SF1000 has suffered from the same correlation issues asthe SF90. You guys must remember that the two cars are basically the same externally. This one has better packaging and that's about it. I do concur that Ferrari were throwing their eggs into the then 2021 regulations.
My guess would be that correlation issues are not so important here and they are not a big factor. They were really hit with TDs regarding engine and they had to quickly react to try to give the car more straight line speed. They had the car designed for really powerful engine and they had to change stuff last minute and of course they got car that has no balance. I think that with last year engine they would be no more than 2 tenths slower than mercedes.

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: Ferrari SF1000

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Binotto says that they don't fully understand what the problem is.

"I think that we can only understand how much we can close the gap when we have fully understood the reason why we are so slow."

https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/20/fer ... w-binotto/

Jolle
Jolle
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Location: Dordrecht

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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zibby43 wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:26 am
Binotto says that they don't fully understand what the problem is.

"I think that we can only understand how much we can close the gap when we have fully understood the reason why we are so slow."

https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/20/fer ... w-binotto/
Looking at the headline picture of that article... looks like 2020 cars catching a 2015 car.

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ME4ME
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Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: Ferrari SF1000

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:25 am
This SF1000 has suffered from the same correlation issues asthe SF90. You guys must remember that the two cars are basically the same externally. This one has better packaging and that's about it. I do concur that Ferrari were throwing their eggs into the then 2021 regulations.
Well Binotto's comments at the launch of the SF1000 was that although looking similair, in detail and under the skin they were entirely different cars following slightly different concepts.

I don't think they abandoned 2020 for the sake of the posponed 2021-regs. After all, it's Ferrari we're talking about, they crave success today at the cost of success tomorrow :(