Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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Jolle
Jolle
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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dans79 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:11 pm
Jolle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:44 pm
The first autopsy was worded in such a way that several news outlets (and some members here) could state that he didn’t die of having a knee on his neck for almost nine minutes, but because of drugs and a bad heart, suggesting the police did nothing wrong.
As I and others have said/alluded to, that is the press and others being out of their depth, or reading/presenting what they want to.

An autopsy report written by a medical examiner or coroner is generally not written to be consumed by the general public. They are written using the appropriate medical terminology, and to be overtly thorough, because they must stand up to examination in the court of law. they can't have oopsies or oversites, they must list every possible condition/issue they can find with their patient.
Not related to BLM or this case, but a good read. About how forensic science in the US isn’t science based. It lacks guidelines on the most basic principles (for instance how many points do fingerprints have to match).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mon ... ange-that/

Looking at the whole law enforcement in the US, you could see that it’s almost amateurish. No real training for officers (well, 12 weeks or so), no or very little accountability (written in law), no system to track “bad cops”, forensic’s without guidelines or rules and a strong union that protects those bad apples.

Compare that to others rich counties, where police is trained for at least three years, forensics are done by science and cops are fully accountable.

The ingredients of US law enforcement is a highway to disaster.

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subcritical71
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Jolle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:44 pm
subcritical71 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:30 pm
Jolle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:18 pm


That was the police their autopsy. The family asked and got a second opinion, and guess what: he was choked to death, just like the video showed.

It was another case of trying to cover up. Just like the very dangerous peace protester who retuned a helmet to the cops that “tripped” in the official reports.
I'm not taking a position on the results of the autopsy, but you dismiss the police autopsy finding and put faith behind the families autopsy. While the medical examiner is an elected official, I don't know the existing relationship of the families coroner. While I would tend to believe there is a separation of the police and medical examiners, lets say they are actively working together to cover up the cause of death. Don't both parties, the police and family coroner, have an agenda?
There is an excellent piece of investigated journalism of Jon Oliver about autopsies and police evidence a few years back. As for the independent result of the family, the findings have been shared and the general consensus between pathologist is that it was indeed the choke.

The police system, unions, labs, etc etc. It’s a very very rotten system. It’s been shown over and over again. And the next response now would probably be “what about?”

Educate yourself and look at investigative reporting, first hand reports and scientists. Don’t be fooled by some media that just shouts “it’s not true” because the “least racist person ever” president said so. Hell, he even said to cops “don’t be to gentle with them” and sharing videos of supporters shouting “white power”.

Trump, Stephen Miller and The Mercers represent leadership ruled by people who I view not to support black people their rights. There is a mountain of evidence that supports that. Trump has even been convicted for racism.

This week Fox ran a report, well, a rant against a republican who dared to suggest that police should loose their immunity.
Sorry, I don't watch Fox News, nor CNN. Both of those outlets lost their newsworthiness long ago. Jon Oliver is a comedian, who gets paid to make people laugh. I like his show and it makes me laugh but I also don't count it as news (nor does he). I don't consider myself a Republican nor a Democrat. What I was pointing out is that the Medical Examiner by mandate/law is to be independent from the police department. The families coroner was brought in by the family. How can you be so sure, when there is a tie, which is more correct? Have the other pathologists seen the body or are they simply reading the report of two other pathologists and basing their 'expert opinion' on a report and not physical evidence? Do you have some links to the investigative reporting on the Floyd autopsy?

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subcritical71
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Jolle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:44 pm

The first autopsy was worded in such a way that several news outlets (and some members here) could state that he didn’t die of having a knee on his neck for almost nine minutes, but because of drugs and a bad heart, suggesting the police did nothing wrong.
Medical Examiner report
Cause of death: Homicide
How is that because of drugs or a bad heart? A quick education by myself shows that homicide is defined in the Oxford dictionary as "the deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another; murder." Nothing about drugs, nothing about a bad heart. Any 'news' outlet that reported otherwise should issue a retraction.

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RZS10
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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IIRC the issue was that the media instantly cherrypicked quotes from the preliminary report and claimed it said he died due to pre-existing medical conditions and intoxicants when the report actually said those "likely contributed" ... the FULL report then classified it as a homicide with cause of death being a cardiopulmonary arrest caused by the neck compression with the heart diseases + fentanyl + meth as contributing factors. The second autopsy had "asphyxia" as cause of death ... asphyxia ultimately leads to a cardiac arrest so the only difference was the wording but the conclusion was vastly the same, only that the second autopsy ordered by his family of course left out the nasty details about his drug abuse.

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strad
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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I have been re-reading MLKs I have a dream speech.
The U.S.A. has addressed every dream he had.
That his children won't live in a world where they will not be denied a place in a motel or hotel by a sign saying for whites only...DONE
That ALL men black and white will be able to pursue life liberty and the pursuit of happiness... DONE
That ..the Negro is granted citizenship rights. DONE
That.. little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. Done....
.
Some time back I took the test to be a mail carrier. I scored 100% on the test and didn't get picked. When I checked on why I found out that I never stood a chance.
Why? Because any black person was awarded an extra 10 points and a woman would be awarded 10 more extra points so a white male could only get 100 where a black woman could get 120. I didn't complain and went on about my life and got a better job anyway, but it shows that the deck is not stacked against blacks in the U.S..
.
The media on both sides have long since retired from journalism and have gone to providing opinion pieces.
Billionaires with a strong bias purchased newspapers and TV stations so they could push their agendas.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Jolle
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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subcritical71 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:14 pm
Jolle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:44 pm

The first autopsy was worded in such a way that several news outlets (and some members here) could state that he didn’t die of having a knee on his neck for almost nine minutes, but because of drugs and a bad heart, suggesting the police did nothing wrong.
Medical Examiner report
Cause of death: Homicide
How is that because of drugs or a bad heart? A quick education by myself shows that homicide is defined in the Oxford dictionary as "the deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another; murder." Nothing about drugs, nothing about a bad heart. Any 'news' outlet that reported otherwise should issue a retraction.
From Fox News:

An official autopsy revealed nothing to support strangulation as the cause of death, concluding that the combined effects of being restrained, potential intoxicants in Floyd’s system and his underlying health issues, including heart disease, likely contributed to his death.

And when the second autopsy came out:

Preliminary results from the official autopsy, which were included in a criminal complaint against former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin -- who kneeled on Floyd's neck for eight minutes in the now-viral video -- said officials had found nothing "to support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation." On Monday, an updated autopsy report classified Floyd's death as a homicide and listed the cause of death as "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."

dans79
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Jolle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:59 pm
subcritical71 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:14 pm
Jolle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:44 pm

The first autopsy was worded in such a way that several news outlets (and some members here) could state that he didn’t die of having a knee on his neck for almost nine minutes, but because of drugs and a bad heart, suggesting the police did nothing wrong.
Medical Examiner report
Cause of death: Homicide
How is that because of drugs or a bad heart? A quick education by myself shows that homicide is defined in the Oxford dictionary as "the deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another; murder." Nothing about drugs, nothing about a bad heart. Any 'news' outlet that reported otherwise should issue a retraction.
From Fox News:

An official autopsy revealed nothing to support strangulation as the cause of death, concluding that the combined effects of being restrained, potential intoxicants in Floyd’s system and his underlying health issues, including heart disease, likely contributed to his death.

And when the second autopsy came out:

Preliminary results from the official autopsy, which were included in a criminal complaint against former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin -- who kneeled on Floyd's neck for eight minutes in the now-viral video -- said officials had found nothing "to support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation." On Monday, an updated autopsy report classified Floyd's death as a homicide and listed the cause of death as "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."
And in a not at all stratforward way those statements are correct.

He was not strangled, the term is usually reserved for when someone wraps their hands around a victim's neck and squeezes with enough force and for a long enough duration to either cut off oxygen flow to the lungs or blood flow to the brain.

The drugs in is blood stream would have exacerbated the issue. Methamphetamine can cause the heart to race, and blood vessels to constrict. Fentanyl can cause several breathing related issue, all of witch are going to make it harder when you already have a hard time breathing.

As the autopsy states, the restraining is what killed him.

The restraint was procedurally incorrect, and applied for far longer than necessary. In other words what is commonly referred to as excessive force, and why 2nd degree murder charges are in place.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

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Steven
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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Peeps, if anyone wants to add something here related to the livery of Mercedes, now is the time, as this topic will get locked before Friday, so we can all focus on motorsport instead.

Tommy Cookers
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:57 pm
Hamilton's thoughts:

"The unchanged makeup of the F1 community throughout my career makes it feel like only a certain type of person is truly welcome in this sport, one who looks a certain way, comes from a certain background, fits a particular mold and plays by certain unwritten rules.
that's the kind of person I want to see as World Champion .....
not some 'neighbourhood kid making good' ....
F1 is bigger than any one person

just saying ....

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subcritical71
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Jolle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:59 pm
subcritical71 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:14 pm
Jolle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:44 pm

The first autopsy was worded in such a way that several news outlets (and some members here) could state that he didn’t die of having a knee on his neck for almost nine minutes, but because of drugs and a bad heart, suggesting the police did nothing wrong.
Medical Examiner report
Cause of death: Homicide
How is that because of drugs or a bad heart? A quick education by myself shows that homicide is defined in the Oxford dictionary as "the deliberate and unlawful killing of one person by another; murder." Nothing about drugs, nothing about a bad heart. Any 'news' outlet that reported otherwise should issue a retraction.
From Fox News:

An official autopsy revealed nothing to support strangulation as the cause of death, concluding that the combined effects of being restrained, potential intoxicants in Floyd’s system and his underlying health issues, including heart disease, likely contributed to his death.

And when the second autopsy came out:

Preliminary results from the official autopsy, which were included in a criminal complaint against former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin -- who kneeled on Floyd's neck for eight minutes in the now-viral video -- said officials had found nothing "to support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation." On Monday, an updated autopsy report classified Floyd's death as a homicide and listed the cause of death as "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."
As I said, I do not trust Fox News nor CNN to be news worthy. Listening to them will give you opinion, not news, with few exceptions. And as the saying goes, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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It seems Hamilton's new commission is a fact finding one. Smart way to go about it.
You can't change what you don't know, and I think that's the issue.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hami ... n=widget-1
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

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strad
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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I repeat To a man with a hammer everything looks like a nail. We've been thru this for 50 years. People with an agenda find what they are looking for.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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The livery in the sunlight.

Magnificent.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/02/pic ... stria-280/

Image
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

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strad
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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It's black,, That makes it Magnificent?
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss