FIA launches another engine regulatory crackdown focused on ERS

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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dren
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Re: FIA launches another engine regulatory crackdown focused on ERS

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Anyone have an idea what denotes other ancillaries in the regulations? I can't seem to find it.
Honda!

bosyber
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Re: FIA launches another engine regulatory crackdown focused on ERS

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flexcon wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:18 pm
Random meandering thought.

Ferrari agree to technical details of their engine being shared which leads to FIA ordering this clampdown.
Ferrari knew this and built this years engine bulkier, stronger and able to withstand a higher power mode in the race
Ferrari have bided their time on this. Taken some pain knowing the others would be chasing qualifying top end power Ferrari New Spec 2 will allow them to run this new higher map during the race for longer than the others
Ferrari close the gap to others again.

Disclaimer - Thought of this while half asleep this morning. As you do...
Continuing on that, maybe a bit OT here, sorry.

If it turns out that way, and with Mercedes having already likely the most power and best overall reliability, thus losing maybe less than Honda overall, watch Red Bull be very quick to become extremely sour, and that protest against the hidden deal to quickly pick up new air.

I like your cynical thinking there, and it matches with my feeling that not doing this during the winter, or even announcing the intent at the end of last season, was a very big missed opportunity from the FIA.

They could have sort of started this, publicly talking about it when we got those TD's that arguably curbed Ferrari (or was it their extra downforce which didn't quite seem to match the GPS data?). Rather than the deal announced at the eve of testing, and then months later this ruling. As in, start preparing that as soon as the FIA admitted to themselves they did not actually have a good enough grasp on the Ferrari, and by extension all, PU's to be able to say definitely cheating or not.

I mean, Mercedes has been pretty vocal that they have put in extra effort and thus money to get such a big extra step, only to have Ferrari fall away and them being a mile ahead and triggering this. Unlike Ferrari, it is not a given they'd sue, but clearly in a season when we have been talking about how the sport can keep its financial head above water, seems a big and sort of unfair bit of allowing costs to rise. Would have been a lot better had everyone known not to do that.

If Ferrari had advance knowledge, and profits from being a potential cheat that was forced to come clean, that's on a whole other level, and might even get Mercedes to re-join the protest, and the FIA do then fully deserves all the fallout from that (including mess of Ferrari potentially being legally in the wrong, thus having gotten it's FIA-gala approved 2019-result be formally illegal, and Red Bull suing for a piece of that pie).

My problem with most of the measures is not that it's fully unreasonable, in fact, they might reasonably have decided that already for 2014, or after the various oil-burning rulings, after finding Ferrari was using an extra battery, which surprised them (not saying that was illegal, as officially here we do not know anyone was or is doing illegal things, just using all the gray, and maybe colouring over the edges here and there, rather than fully outside of the lines). Then it could have been considered, the PU manufacturers could have reworked their next season engine for it, and that would have been that.

But then again, it remains F1, right?

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mem
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Re: FIA launches another engine regulatory crackdown focused on ERS

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Zynerji wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:12 pm
Can we just freeze the ICE and uncap the ERS system?

Let them push the ERS tech for performance gains. This is legitimately the most road relevant tech in F1.
no need to freeze ICE i think its very little how much power you can extract from it by now after 6 years , while the ERS limited to 160 hp uncap it will open another spending war let alone control it by the FIA.
I'm surprised by the lack of coverage on this new FIA initiative. AMuS and insideracing are the only sources I've found.
this is by far bigger than the Ferrari debacle because Ferrari didn't win 6 titles and no British mega driver with them,ofcourse if something sinister to be found,you would treat it very carefully.
i assume mercedes because they are far ahead its not logical to start an invistigation for example for Redbull is only one second behind and they should be 2 seconds.

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1158
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Re: FIA launches another engine regulatory crackdown focused on ERS

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flexcon wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:18 pm
Random meandering thought.

Ferrari agree to technical details of their engine being shared which leads to FIA ordering this clampdown.
Ferrari knew this and built this years engine bulkier, stronger and able to withstand a higher power mode in the race
Ferrari have bided their time on this. Taken some pain knowing the others would be chasing qualifying top end power Ferrari New Spec 2 will allow them to run this new higher map during the race for longer than the others
Ferrari close the gap to others again.

Disclaimer - Thought of this while half asleep this morning. As you do...

Funny. I posted this in the AMRBRH team thread Aug 14:
1158 wrote:
Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:59 pm
Ok. I'm gonna go full tinfoil hat for a minute. Suppose the real reason Merc dropped their Ferrari-FIA secret agreement challenge was because Ferrari informed Merc they know how Merc's Q mode really works and that it is outside of the intentions of the regs. The FIA then agreed to not do anything about it until Merc had a large advantage which is why Merc has unleashed it's full potential for the first part of the season to keep Merc happy, in F1 and out of the Ferrari-FIA secret agreement.

Do I really think that happened? No. I'd say a less than 1% chance, but wouldn't that be a bombshell in 10 or 20 years lol.
I wonder if the 1% chance needs to be higher the more and more we hear. It may not have happened exactly like that, but I wonder how much is going on in the background that won't be known for 10s of years...

I'm not saying Merc necessarily cheated either (or Reno or Honda). One, some or all could be using a gray area that a directive will tighten up.

Partymood
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Re: FIA launches another engine regulatory crackdown focused on ERS

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Big Tea wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:08 pm
Partymood wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:57 am
Just_a_fan wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:56 pm

Yeah, have to make it a joke or it'll be considered an attack on the integrity of the Red Team. And we know where that will end... :wink:
May I remind you of MERC secret tyre test? Or perhaps Macca's spygate? And I only mentioned what has been proven and sanctioned.
If you are anything but a Ferrari fan, you do have a point.
I take that as a yes, then

RaceFan1
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Re: FIA launches another engine regulatory crackdown focused on ERS

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Last year Honda and Merc proposed ways that a fuel sensor could be tricked to read low. Couldn't the FIA / Ferrari agreement include scenarios for tricking or bypassing the electrical system?

Xwang
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Re: FIA launches another engine regulatory crackdown focused on ERS

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RaceFan1 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:57 pm
Last year Honda and Merc proposed ways that a fuel sensor could be tricked to read low. Couldn't the FIA / Ferrari agreement include scenarios for tricking or bypassing the electrical system?
IMHO it's easier to use the proposed tricks on an electrical sensor (varying accordingly the measured voltage and/or current) than doing the same with fuel flow which has a mass and associated inertia and so should be more difficult to vary at high frequencies.
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.

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Zynerji
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Re: FIA launches another engine regulatory crackdown focused on ERS

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mem wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:42 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:12 pm
Can we just freeze the ICE and uncap the ERS system?

Let them push the ERS tech for performance gains. This is legitimately the most road relevant tech in F1.
no need to freeze ICE i think its very little how much power you can extract from it by now after 6 years , while the ERS limited to 160 hp uncap it will open another spending war let alone control it by the FIA.
There will <-***ALWAYS***-> be a spending war in F1.

The 200IQ play is to make the battle field relevant to consumer goods.

Its way better than spending it on aero.

Partymood
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Re: FIA launches another engine regulatory crackdown focused on ERS

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El Scorchio wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:43 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:36 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:25 pm


The cynic in me cannot help but think all this new engine reg stuff is entirely for Ferrari's benefit, because of the mess they've gotten themselves into.
The cynic in me says Ferrari were doing it and got caught, so share the pain-
Yes exactly- it feels like they are just assuming guilt on the part of all the other manufacturers, just because Ferrari can't seem to keep up with some of them by strictly legal means.

And if therefore Ferrari are saying to the FIA as part of their deal 'Well WE can't figure out why they are so quick and can't make ourselves as quick, so therefore there must be something dodgy' which has led to this, then that truly stinks.
Swap Ferrari with MB and RB and you will have the scenario from last year, when Toto and Spice boy were all over the media about how it was impossible for Ferrari to gain this much in an year.
Then the same Totó came up this year and candidly stated that they worked so hard last year to catch up to them and now they made 7/10 gain.
Coherence isn't his forte, is it yours?
Last edited by Steven on Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Remove rating comment

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El Scorchio
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Re: FIA launches another engine regulatory crackdown focused on ERS

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Well the FIA only stepped in when teams complained about Ferrari. No-one is complaining about the other teams this year but something is being magically done anyway in Ferrari’s hour of need...

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Big Tea
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Re: FIA launches another engine regulatory crackdown focused on ERS

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Partymood wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:23 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:43 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:36 pm


The cynic in me says Ferrari were doing it and got caught, so share the pain-
Yes exactly- it feels like they are just assuming guilt on the part of all the other manufacturers, just because Ferrari can't seem to keep up with some of them by strictly legal means.

And if therefore Ferrari are saying to the FIA as part of their deal 'Well WE can't figure out why they are so quick and can't make ourselves as quick, so therefore there must be something dodgy' which has led to this, then that truly stinks.
Swap Ferrari with MB and RB and you will have the scenario from last year, when Toto and Spice boy were all over the media about how it was impossible for Ferrari to gain this much in an year.
Then the same Totó came up this year and candidly stated that they worked so hard last year to catch up to them and now they made 7/10 gain.
Coherence isn't his forte, is it yours?
Alternately, perhaps Ferrari were using the very same, lets call it 'method' and are now no longer able to as they have extra vigilance?
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

Partymood
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Re: FIA launches another engine regulatory crackdown focused on ERS

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Big Tea wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:56 pm
Partymood wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:23 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:43 pm


Yes exactly- it feels like they are just assuming guilt on the part of all the other manufacturers, just because Ferrari can't seem to keep up with some of them by strictly legal means.

And if therefore Ferrari are saying to the FIA as part of their deal 'Well WE can't figure out why they are so quick and can't make ourselves as quick, so therefore there must be something dodgy' which has led to this, then that truly stinks.
Swap Ferrari with MB and RB and you will have the scenario from last year, when Toto and Spice boy were all over the media about how it was impossible for Ferrari to gain this much in an year.
Then the same Totó came up this year and candidly stated that they worked so hard last year to catch up to them and now they made 7/10 gain.
Coherence isn't his forte, is it yours?
Alternately, perhaps Ferrari were using the very same, lets call it 'method' and are now no longer able to as they have extra vigilance?
A courtesy that FIA should show to MERC as well, but then again a contract was stipulated to keep them from leaving and the rest is hystory.

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RZS10
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Re: FIA launches another engine regulatory crackdown focused on ERS

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It's a bit surprising that we're closing in on three weeks since the deadline and there hasn't even been a tiniest bit of information about this ...