2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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Zynerji
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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My view of carbon neutral liquid fuels is that it allows "vintage" ICE vehicles to still operate well into the future (at an increased fuel cost) instead of filling scrap yards with the billions of cars currently on the roads.

PS:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 112715.htm

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:39 pm
JordanMugen wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:08 pm
.... It's much, much, much more efficient (for now) to just put the renewable electricity directly into the vehicle.
putting 'renewable electricity directly into the vehicle' prevents some better use ie heating by heat pumps
Assuming there is only enough energy to do one or the other, of course.

Let's be clear here: renewable energy's problems are not technical, they're entirely political. The amount of renewable energy available is several orders of magnitude greater than the total human energy usage. We could run thousands of Earths' worth of people on the renewable energy available on this one Earth.

The only reason we are messing around at the edges of what is possible is because of politics. That's it, nothing else. And yes, economics is political too. "It costs too much" is a political objection, not a technical one.

Anything else is just pissing in the wind.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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nzjrs
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:26 pm
The only reason we are messing around at the edges of what is possible is because of politics. That's it, nothing else. And yes, economics is political too. "It costs too much" is a political objection, not a technical one.

Anything else is just pissing in the wind.
But technology can be changed and adapted. Politics is unchanging and unchangeable. It really doesn't matter who is in power these days.

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Zynerji
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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nzjrs wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:31 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:26 pm
The only reason we are messing around at the edges of what is possible is because of politics. That's it, nothing else. And yes, economics is political too. "It costs too much" is a political objection, not a technical one.

Anything else is just pissing in the wind.
But technology can be changed and adapted. Politics is unchanging and unchangeable. It really doesn't matter who is in power these days.
Like I tell my children about politics. If you put a button in the room that if it's pressed by every elected official there would solve 100% of the Country's problems, no one would push the button. The only emotional draw to get voters voting is to keep the problems alive to target during the campaigns.

If they fixed everything, no one would vote, as it could only get messed up from there.

Tommy Cookers
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:26 pm
Let's be clear here: renewable energy's problems are not technical, they're entirely political. The amount of renewable energy available is several orders of magnitude greater than the total human energy usage. We could run thousands of Earths' worth of people on the renewable energy available on this one Earth ....
how would that be ?

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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nzjrs wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:31 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:26 pm
The only reason we are messing around at the edges of what is possible is because of politics. That's it, nothing else. And yes, economics is political too. "It costs too much" is a political objection, not a technical one.

Anything else is just pissing in the wind.
But technology can be changed and adapted. Politics is unchanging and unchangeable. It really doesn't matter who is in power these days.
The point is that politics prevents the problem being solved, not the available technology. We could run the entire planet on renewables within 20 years using today's technology if we wanted to. But politics prevents it.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:00 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:26 pm
Let's be clear here: renewable energy's problems are not technical, they're entirely political. The amount of renewable energy available is several orders of magnitude greater than the total human energy usage. We could run thousands of Earths' worth of people on the renewable energy available on this one Earth ....
how would that be ?
How would what be?
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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Zynerji wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:47 pm
nzjrs wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:31 pm
Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:26 pm
The only reason we are messing around at the edges of what is possible is because of politics. That's it, nothing else. And yes, economics is political too. "It costs too much" is a political objection, not a technical one.

Anything else is just pissing in the wind.
But technology can be changed and adapted. Politics is unchanging and unchangeable. It really doesn't matter who is in power these days.
Like I tell my children about politics. If you put a button in the room that if it's pressed by every elected official there would solve 100% of the Country's problems, no one would push the button. The only emotional draw to get voters voting is to keep the problems alive to target during the campaigns.

If they fixed everything, no one would vote, as it could only get messed up from there.
Exactly. Politicians need problems in order to be needed themselves. If everyone was well fed, had decent accommodation, and had what they needed to live a happy life, politicians wouldn't be needed. Politicians promise change to those that need it and ensure that change doesn't happen so that those that don't want change keep "donating" to them.

Politics is the modern equivalent of established religion (as opposed to individual religious beliefs). Established religions needed people to be unhappy so that they would come to the churches etc. Happy and contended people are much less likely to need a priest or a politician.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Ferry
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:39 pm
putting 'renewable electricity directly into the vehicle' prevents some better use ie heating by heat pumps
I'm doing both! Heat pump up on my wall, two BEVs outside, 98% renewable in the socket. At the same time exporting to Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, UK.

BTW. how many heat pumps can be driven instead of making renewable fuel? 300% effiency vs ? 10%?

wesley123
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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JordanMugen wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:08 pm
wesley123 wrote:
Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:15 pm
No reputable manufacturer would want to touch ICE, and an increase of it in motorsports, with a 10 foot pole.
Is Ferrari not a reputable manufacturer? :wink:
While Ferrari has been extremely hard-headed in it, even they are making smaller, more efficient engines.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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henry
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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Given the relative efficiencies between synfuels and batteries I would expect that synthetic fuels would be allocated to uses where high energy density is essential rather than nice to have. Aircraft, HGVs, farm vehicles, vehicles for remote locations seem candidates. Cars for general private use aren’t likely to be prioritised except for the category of remote use.

That’s why I think the F1 marketing is wide of the mark. It’s clear a significant proportion of the world car fleet will be fossil fuelled in 2030 but it will be reducing rapidly . Why would the production of synfuel be ramped up to meet a demand that’s disappearing?
Fortune favours the prepared; she has no favourites and takes no sides.
Truth is confirmed by inspection and delay; falsehood by haste and uncertainty : Tacitus

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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F1 is hiding behind paywalls and the inventing gimmicks to try to attract audiences. Why would they back the obviously sensible horse in anything like road car technology? :lol:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

mzso
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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JordanMugen wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:30 pm
So it's good that Ferrari keep people employed but it's wrong that Ferrari keep people employed by building vehicles which poison the environment?
I couldn't care less about Ferrari. Other corporations manufacture real cars, that people use. Not just snob fashion crap to posture with.

mzso
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:39 pm
putting 'renewable electricity directly into the vehicle' prevents some better use ie heating by heat pumps
Using electricity for heating is horrible waste. In this damned day and age there shouldn't be much or any heating. Only superinsulation and proper building design. Even the passive house concept is decades old.

Even ignoring that there's solar thermal. This is an interesting accomplishment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_Lan ... _Community

mzso
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:26 pm
Let's be clear here: renewable energy's problems are not technical, they're entirely political. The amount of renewable energy available is several orders of magnitude greater than the total human energy usage. We could run thousands of Earths' worth of people on the renewable energy available on this one Earth.
Except that it's technical and also (transitively) economical. Sunlight won't magically become the electricity in you home. Renewable is just too costly and problematic.
There's fissile material for millions of years at least. That also stubbornly refuses to fly out of the ground/ocean and become electricity in our grid.