2021 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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When you think about it. Unless they change the engineering team. Any success Alpine have, will be due to Abiteboul setup.

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diffuser
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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Couple of move in what, I think, are more important positions...if you haven't been paying attention:

S. Fraser, former Head of Electronics at Haas, now Head of Electronics at Renault/Alpine since April.2020

S. Hawkins, former Aerodynamicist at Racing Point, now Senior Aerodynamicist at Renault/Alpine since October.2020

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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Mclarensenna wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:04 am
Yes i agree Cyril had 5 or so years and did not deliver.
Bit harsh. Cyril has overseen the upgrade of the Renault/Alpine F1 factory -- a major undertaking in itself, hired Fry, hired Budkowski and so on.

Results on circuit are not the only measure. :wink:

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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Mclarensenna wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:20 pm
Every top team manager adopts this budget is king and we will do everything in their powers to sell sponsors to increase budget. Zac Brown the last few years his sole mission seems to increase budget with sponsors, increase facilities, increase investor budget getting investment all over the world, even by leasing factory even and fights tooth and nail for more budget/decreasec cost cap. He knows you cannot under any circumstance compete with much smaller budget and infrastructure deficits.
The purpose of the Renault (Alpine) F1 Team is to promote Renault or Alpine, not to promote DP World, Infiniti (who were paying handsomely at Red Bull Racing for major signage), Castrol, Microsoft or others. The major Renault branding on the car reflects this motivation. :wink:

There is CLEARLY a division within Renault where they do NOT see Infiniti as Renault's prestige brand for instance, but rather as Nissan's prestige brand (and instead will place Alpine as Renault's prestige label, equivalent to Citroen's DS or Volkswagen's Audi), and that Nissan-Renault relationship is rather strained for a variety of reasons.

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Mclarensenna
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:43 am
Mclarensenna wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:20 pm
Every top team manager adopts this budget is king and we will do everything in their powers to sell sponsors to increase budget. Zac Brown the last few years his sole mission seems to increase budget with sponsors, increase facilities, increase investor budget getting investment all over the world, even by leasing factory even and fights tooth and nail for more budget/decreasec cost cap. He knows you cannot under any circumstance compete with much smaller budget and infrastructure deficits.
The purpose of the Renault (Alpine) F1 Team is to promote Renault or Alpine, not to promote DP World, Infiniti (who were paying handsomely at Red Bull Racing for major signage), Castrol, Microsoft or others. The major Renault branding on the car reflects this motivation. :wink:

There is CLEARLY a division within Renault where they do NOT see Infiniti as Renault's prestige brand for instance, but rather as Nissan's prestige brand (and instead will place Alpine as Renault's prestige label, equivalent to Citroen's DS or Volkswagen's Audi), and that Nissan-Renault relationship is rather strained for a variety of reasons.
Sorry but Mercedes, Redbull, Ferrari, Mclaren, Racing point, the top teams in F1 all do not display their own company on the rear wing. Only Renault has the past 5 years.
And that is why Renault ended up 5th in 2020

The reason is simple. That rear wing spot is generally worth 20-30 million alone.(let alone other spots on the car) Those profits are then used to develop the car further making it faster.
Mercedes sold that rear wing spot in 2010 amongst the other advertising spots on the car. They used all the profits to drive the Mercedes forward till they eventually became the most unstoppable team from 2014-2020

On top Mercedes since 2014 have received billion of dollars in free advertising from winning the world championship every year.

So yes you can try the Cyril approach, not to do any work and not fill the renault with sponsors like Merc does. You then have a much more restrained budget, end up coming 5th after 5 years and get very minimal advertising exposure even with Renault plastered all over the car and rear wing.

Or the Merc approach which Merc proved works. Sell every single spot on that car, use all those profits to win championships and then get billions a year in free advertising year after year going on 7 years now.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13913 ... t-revealed
"2017, representing an AER (Advertising Value Equivalent) of £3.4bn for its parent manufacturer and the team's partners."

The proof is there clear as day. The Renault formula does not work and failed cataclysmically the past 5 years.
The Merc formula is a proven winning formula hence why Ferrari, Redbull, Mclaren, and racing point all seem to follow it.

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RedNEO
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:04 pm
When you think about it. Unless they change the engineering team. Any success Alpine have, will be due to Abiteboul setup.
I think it’s dangerous to put everything whether it’s good or bad on one person. Nobody should be given credit above anyone else. Team spirit and team effort is the only way they will succeed.

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diffuser
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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RedNEO wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:05 am
diffuser wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:04 pm
When you think about it. Unless they change the engineering team. Any success Alpine have, will be due to Abiteboul setup.
I think it’s dangerous to put everything whether it’s good or bad on one person. Nobody should be given credit above anyone else. Team spirit and team effort is the only way they will succeed.
Well, I'm sure Fry and the rest of the enginnering team had something to do with those chassis hires.

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RedNEO
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:20 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:05 am
diffuser wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:04 pm
When you think about it. Unless they change the engineering team. Any success Alpine have, will be due to Abiteboul setup.
I think it’s dangerous to put everything whether it’s good or bad on one person. Nobody should be given credit above anyone else. Team spirit and team effort is the only way they will succeed.
Well, I'm sure Fry and the rest of the enginnering team had something to do with those chassis hires.
I’m talking more in general. Look at what happened when Renault signed Ricciardo. Cyril was putting out statements that he would turn the team into something and that immediately puts everything on him and when it doesn’t work he leaves.

What is important is just working on the team you have got and empowering the team to express themselves without putting it on individuals when things go either way.

Ofcourse Cyril did a good job but he was part of 700+ people who also did a good job.

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diffuser
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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JordanMugen wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:41 am
Mclarensenna wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:04 am
Yes i agree Cyril had 5 or so years and did not deliver.
Bit harsh. Cyril has overseen the upgrade of the Renault/Alpine F1 factory -- a major undertaking in itself, hired Fry, hired Budkowski and so on.

Results on circuit are not the only measure. :wink:
Took him too long to find Fry. Heck, he didn't even find, McLaren did. Then Cyril noticed. He'd been on gardening leave from Ferrari from around the time Alonso left Ferrari.

His cars at Ferrari weren't out of this world but they were competitive. They didn't have Newey in aero either.

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FrukostScones
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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RedNEO wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:05 am
diffuser wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:04 pm
When you think about it. Unless they change the engineering team. Any success Alpine have, will be due to Abiteboul setup.
I think it’s dangerous to put everything whether it’s good or bad on one person. Nobody should be given credit above anyone else. Team spirit and team effort is the only way they will succeed.
you name it.

Image
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

Peter1919
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:04 pm
When you think about it. Unless they change the engineering team. Any success Alpine have, will be due to Abiteboul setup.
I don't agree with that. If the same staff end up having more success under new management then doesn't that suggest that actually the problem was the previous management?

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RedNEO
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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FrukostScones wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:06 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:05 am
diffuser wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:04 pm
When you think about it. Unless they change the engineering team. Any success Alpine have, will be due to Abiteboul setup.
I think it’s dangerous to put everything whether it’s good or bad on one person. Nobody should be given credit above anyone else. Team spirit and team effort is the only way they will succeed.
you name it.

https://img.speedweek.com/i/3/3e63451ab ... reset=i750
Belle. That car that sound!

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diffuser
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Location: Montreal

Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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Peter1919 wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:51 pm
diffuser wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:04 pm
When you think about it. Unless they change the engineering team. Any success Alpine have, will be due to Abiteboul setup.
I don't agree with that. If the same staff end up having more success under new management then doesn't that suggest that actually the problem was the previous management?
Ironically, I don't agree with myself either :mrgreen:

Not for that reason though. Mainly, that position will have alot of input on it's direct reports. Less so on the reports of those reports. The TP isn't gonna force Fry to hire a specific person. The way the structure is at Alpine the next level of technical management @Enstone report to Fry. So Fry will have as much input if not more on those hires.

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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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The Power of Honda!

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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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The Power of Honda!