2021 Alpine F1 Team

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Morteza
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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RedNEO
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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^ How can you not love this guy :lol:

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RedNEO
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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max_speed wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:32 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:22 pm
max_speed wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:31 pm
In short their updates are not working. Looks like as of now updates are like hit and trial not output of a well thought methodology to develop car. They are not able to figure out soft tyres at all. This might impact next year development philosophy as well :(
Why would it impact next year? 18inch vs 13 inch different susp rules no hydraulics
I am more worried about correlation between wind tunnel model and track. If they are unable to solve their issues and can progress well this year not sure how much trust they can put in next year model. I am not sure what is actually the problem with Alpine but compare to others they have not progressed while Alpha Tauri is improving a lot and even Aston martin has progressed well and on verge of passing alpine.
I wouldn’t worry.. I’m convinced it’s all down to engine power and since they are the only team who didn’t upgrade there engine this year they would always be fighting a losing battle. Think about it, with less power you are basically always going to be compromised even around tracks like Monaco. Other teams can add more downforce for better tyre life and still match you on the straights. Alpine is fighting with both hands tied behind there back because they also have a two year old chassis as well. Considering all that they haven’t done terribly.

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RedNEO
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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Those were all decisions that Cyril was ultimately responsible for and explains why he is gone. He screwed to season for Alpine by thinking that he could get the jump on everyone with the 2021 now 2022 car. The rules were not even that clearly defined back then so it really made no sense to not upgrade the chassis and engine for 2020. It still annoys me that that actually happened.. nobody else was doing it and that’s usually a bad sign if nobody else copied that strategy. Anyway the team is in a much better a way now but they can’t fully show it until next year when they can fix those mistakes.

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diffuser
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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RedNEO wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:47 pm
max_speed wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:32 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:22 pm


Why would it impact next year? 18inch vs 13 inch different susp rules no hydraulics
I am more worried about correlation between wind tunnel model and track. If they are unable to solve their issues and can progress well this year not sure how much trust they can put in next year model. I am not sure what is actually the problem with Alpine but compare to others they have not progressed while Alpha Tauri is improving a lot and even Aston martin has progressed well and on verge of passing alpine.
I wouldn’t worry.. I’m convinced it’s all down to engine power and since they are the only team who didn’t upgrade there engine this year they would always be fighting a losing battle. Think about it, with less power you are basically always going to be compromised even around tracks like Monaco. Other teams can add more downforce for better tyre life and still match you on the straights. Alpine is fighting with both hands tied behind there back because they also have a two year old chassis as well. Considering all that they haven’t done terribly.

Pretty sure it has nothing to do with PU power.

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RedNEO
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:02 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:47 pm
max_speed wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:32 pm


I am more worried about correlation between wind tunnel model and track. If they are unable to solve their issues and can progress well this year not sure how much trust they can put in next year model. I am not sure what is actually the problem with Alpine but compare to others they have not progressed while Alpha Tauri is improving a lot and even Aston martin has progressed well and on verge of passing alpine.
I wouldn’t worry.. I’m convinced it’s all down to engine power and since they are the only team who didn’t upgrade there engine this year they would always be fighting a losing battle. Think about it, with less power you are basically always going to be compromised even around tracks like Monaco. Other teams can add more downforce for better tyre life and still match you on the straights. Alpine is fighting with both hands tied behind there back because they also have a two year old chassis as well. Considering all that they haven’t done terribly.

Pretty sure it has nothing to do with PU power.
Well Prost kept saying it was because they didn’t upgrade there engine or chassis when he was asked. It’s not just about engine power, but it’s a factor. I’m not talking about peak power. Let’s consider packaging, weight, centre of gravity ect.. we have McLaren who complimented Mercedes for that so that’s somewhere Renault must improve so that the balance of the car will also get better.
Last edited by RedNEO on Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

Each time I watch it I laugh louder than the previous one :mrgreen:

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diffuser
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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RedNEO wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:09 pm
diffuser wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:02 pm
RedNEO wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:47 pm


I wouldn’t worry.. I’m convinced it’s all down to engine power and since they are the only team who didn’t upgrade there engine this year they would always be fighting a losing battle. Think about it, with less power you are basically always going to be compromised even around tracks like Monaco. Other teams can add more downforce for better tyre life and still match you on the straights. Alpine is fighting with both hands tied behind there back because they also have a two year old chassis as well. Considering all that they haven’t done terribly.

Pretty sure it has nothing to do with PU power.
Well Prost kept saying it was because they didn’t upgrade there engine or chassis when he was asked. It’s not just about engine power, but it’s a factor. I’m not talking about peak power. Let’s consider packaging, weight, centre of gravity ect.. we have McLaren who complimented Mercedes for that so that’s somewhere Renault must improve so that the balance of the car will also get better.
Let's see if Alonzo and his team can figure it out. Give him a few more weeks to keep building on his knowledge and feel of the car. In his hands, that car has looked very fast at times.

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RedNEO
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:26 am
RedNEO wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:09 pm
diffuser wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:02 pm



Pretty sure it has nothing to do with PU power.
Well Prost kept saying it was because they didn’t upgrade there engine or chassis when he was asked. It’s not just about engine power, but it’s a factor. I’m not talking about peak power. Let’s consider packaging, weight, centre of gravity ect.. we have McLaren who complimented Mercedes for that so that’s somewhere Renault must improve so that the balance of the car will also get better.
Let's see if Alonzo and his team can figure it out. Give him a few more weeks to keep building on his knowledge and feel of the car. In his hands, that car has looked very fast at times.
They gave that Chinese F2 academy driver Alonso’s seat for FP1 in the only time they will get to experiment with different set ups this year on the same track. So now Alonso only has 1 hour which isn't much for a Friday.

PowerandtheGlory
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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RedNEO wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:00 pm
Those were all decisions that Cyril was ultimately responsible for and explains why he is gone. He screwed to season for Alpine by thinking that he could get the jump on everyone with the 2021 now 2022 car. The rules were not even that clearly defined back then so it really made no sense to not upgrade the chassis and engine for 2020. It still annoys me that that actually happened.. nobody else was doing it and that’s usually a bad sign if nobody else copied that strategy. Anyway the team is in a much better a way now but they can’t fully show it until next year when they can fix those mistakes.
I don’t think we can still be blaming Cyril, not this far on.. not after he brought in the personnel we have now... fry, fernando.. Quite clear that last year the car- even by the end of season test- was fast, well developed and scored a few podiums.. this years car is not as good, alpine lost out in the same way RP/Aston did.. not spending enough time on the ‘21 car.. because they were battling for 3rd in the championship.. plus no new engine this year and a change of cooling design.. this car isn’t as good. Despite effort to bring new parts early in the year.. time now to focus on ‘22 and bring a big step..
“I don't believe in luck, luck is preparation and taking your opportunity” Ross Brawn

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diffuser
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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PowerandtheGlory wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:00 am
RedNEO wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:00 pm
Those were all decisions that Cyril was ultimately responsible for and explains why he is gone. He screwed to season for Alpine by thinking that he could get the jump on everyone with the 2021 now 2022 car. The rules were not even that clearly defined back then so it really made no sense to not upgrade the chassis and engine for 2020. It still annoys me that that actually happened.. nobody else was doing it and that’s usually a bad sign if nobody else copied that strategy. Anyway the team is in a much better a way now but they can’t fully show it until next year when they can fix those mistakes.
I don’t think we can still be blaming Cyril, not this far on.. not after he brought in the personnel we have now... fry, fernando.. Quite clear that last year the car- even by the end of season test- was fast, well developed and scored a few podiums.. this years car is not as good, alpine lost out in the same way RP/Aston did.. not spending enough time on the ‘21 car.. because they were battling for 3rd in the championship.. plus no new engine this year and a change of cooling design.. this car isn’t as good. Despite effort to bring new parts early in the year.. time now to focus on ‘22 and bring a big step..
This year was always a write-off. They said coming in, the effort on 2021 would be minimal. We'll see what they show up with next year.

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RedNEO
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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PowerandtheGlory wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:00 am
RedNEO wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:00 pm
Those were all decisions that Cyril was ultimately responsible for and explains why he is gone. He screwed to season for Alpine by thinking that he could get the jump on everyone with the 2021 now 2022 car. The rules were not even that clearly defined back then so it really made no sense to not upgrade the chassis and engine for 2020. It still annoys me that that actually happened.. nobody else was doing it and that’s usually a bad sign if nobody else copied that strategy. Anyway the team is in a much better a way now but they can’t fully show it until next year when they can fix those mistakes.
I don’t think we can still be blaming Cyril, not this far on.. not after he brought in the personnel we have now... fry, fernando.. Quite clear that last year the car- even by the end of season test- was fast, well developed and scored a few podiums.. this years car is not as good, alpine lost out in the same way RP/Aston did.. not spending enough time on the ‘21 car.. because they were battling for 3rd in the championship.. plus no new engine this year and a change of cooling design.. this car isn’t as good. Despite effort to bring new parts early in the year.. time now to focus on ‘22 and bring a big step..
We are still suffering from the consequences of not having a new chassis and engine in 2020 which meant we don’t have a new chassis or engine for 2021 either.. all decisions that Prost said cost us dearly especially in 21.

That’s why you don’t just throw away years like it’s nothing before they have even started, a lesson I thought most would have learned after BMW famously threw away 2008 there most competitive season for the new rules in 2009 and they were nowhere that year.

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RedNEO
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:31 pm
Naturally though, if the car was doing better , you'd have better feeling for the 2022 package.
If anything this is maybe the most important reason why you don’t throw away years before they have even started. Team morale can have such a profound effect on everyone’s motivation to work harder and do better and nothing lifts a teams spirit and confidence more than strong results.

That’s why whenever someone just talks about writing off a year so blasé like it won’t have an effect on all the hard work people are doing it pains me. It should be an unwritten rule to NEVER EVER throw away a year before it’s even started, momentum is really important.

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RedNEO
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... spielberg/
Michael Schmidt with an article about Alpine and ALO.

important things:
+ engineers say: we have a good car but not a good understanding of the tyres.
+ car is good on tracks with fluid corners
+ not good on tracks where are a lot of corners with a short curve radius (like Austria)
+ tyre management was on par with Alpha Tauri and Aston Martin last week, better than before
+ Permane is not wondering that ALO is fast again, he never met a driver who is more flexible than ALO, a driver with "no driving style", able to adapt to every car and tyre
+ engineers are impressed by his feedback and experience
+ The more ALO confirmes his evaluations and wishes with results the more OCO will fall behind
+ one enineers says: we warned Esteban, when ALO is getting comfortable and has everything under control he is barely beatable.
+ ALO angry about the C5 this week, this favours the fast cars, midfield cars need the C5 to qualify inside the top10, but tyres will fall apart soon in the race
+ According to ALO engineers have a plan to be faster this week, if it doesn't work, he wishes rain.
Credit to blacky from autosport for translation

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diffuser
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Re: 2021 Alpine F1 Team

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RedNEO wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:51 pm
diffuser wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:31 pm
Naturally though, if the car was doing better , you'd have better feeling for the 2022 package.
If anything this is maybe the most important reason why you don’t throw away years before they have even started. Team morale can have such a profound effect on everyone’s motivation to work harder and do better and nothing lifts a teams spirit and confidence more than strong results.

That’s why whenever someone just talks about writing off a year so blasé like it won’t have an effect on all the hard work people are doing it pains me. It should be an unwritten rule to NEVER EVER throw away a year before it’s even started, momentum is really important.

I agree but I don't think it applies if you go in with the mentality of taking advantage of the change in regulations for 2022. They knowingly said going into 2021 that thier focus was on 2022. I think it just effects us externally that aren't really sure what they're doing internally. If they are doing what they said and shifted their focus to 2022 very early on. Then it's a moot point. In 2008, Brawn worked on the 2009 year car from the get go. That didn't hurt the engineer confidence. They still came out with a beast in 2009.