2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Jolle
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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There is another principle that could come into play: you can’t be punished twice for the same offence (in law in general). Hamilton already had his punishment.

the EDGE
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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LaplacesDemon wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:08 pm
I don't see on what grounds they can push for a harsher penalty. FIA have declared Hamilton predominantly at fault and punished him accordingly. Realistically there is no way they can spin it to make him wholly at fault.
Really… I heard they have spy pics which clearly show Lewis’ wheels were fitted with Roman chariot style spikes on the hubs :wink:

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ringo
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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We are now hearing that the engine is fine and redbull wont have any parts penalties.
Goes to show how overblown all of this is.
Their damage doesnt cost 1.8 million anymore.
Redbull is a nasty little team.

Marko is claiming he has video evidence and Hamilton should get a race ban or drive through penalty in the next race.
But is that what fans want to see?
For Sure!!

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Shrieker
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Marko has to be the most obnoxious person in the paddock; ever. And I've seen plenty.
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dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:19 pm
Marko is claiming he has video evidence and Hamilton should get a race ban or drive through penalty in the next race.
But is that what fans want to see?
lol, I'd love to see what he supposedly has that the stewards didn't already have access to.
197 104 103 7

taperoo2k
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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This looks more like mind games from RedBull than a serious attempt at getting Lewis banned for a race. Unsettle Lewis and the team ahead of the next race seems to be the idea here, though they could have new evidence the stewards missed (but I doubt it).

f1jcw
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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It’s not going to happen.
1. They’d have to prove he deliberately tried to take Max out.
2. They’d be destroying the championship, which they are loath to do

the EDGE
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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f1jcw wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:42 pm
It’s not going to happen.
1. They’d have to prove he deliberately tried to take Max out.
Obviously he didn’t try to take Max out, but suppose they say he’s 100% guilty and accidentally to put Max

What would be the normal penalty for that?

I can’t remember the last time anyone go more than 5s for something similar

f1jcw
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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the EDGE wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:46 pm
f1jcw wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:42 pm
It’s not going to happen.
1. They’d have to prove he deliberately tried to take Max out.
Obviously he didn’t try to take Max out, but suppose they say he’s 100% guilty and accidentally to put Max
They don’t give racing bans for it.

zibby43
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:19 pm
We are now hearing that the engine is fine and redbull wont have any parts penalties.
Goes to show how overblown all of this is.
Their damage doesnt cost 1.8 million anymore.
Redbull is a nasty little team.

Marko is claiming he has video evidence and Hamilton should get a race ban or drive through penalty in the next race.
But is that what fans want to see?
Sounds like no evidence they have is new. Marko doesn’t sound confident in his chances (and he shouldn’t). He’s publicly admitting that they’re just doing this to put on a public spectacle of support for Max.

Abusing the right of review in bad faith should have consequences. Then we’ll stop seeing crap like this.


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Big Tea
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:19 pm
We are now hearing that the engine is fine and redbull wont have any parts penalties.
Goes to show how overblown all of this is.
Their damage doesnt cost 1.8 million anymore.
Redbull is a nasty little team.

Marko is claiming he has video evidence and Hamilton should get a race ban or drive through penalty in the next race.
But is that what fans want to see?
Yeh, but it could still have been 500g, but they were lucky
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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what happens if a team over spends? Say a team has spent every last penny and with 1 race to go, need a new chassis due to a crash or a new PU. Whats the penalty?
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zibby43
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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NathanOlder wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:18 pm
what happens if a team over spends? Say a team has spent every last penny and with 1 race to go, need a new chassis due to a crash or a new PU. Whats the penalty?
Good question:

“From 2021 breaches of the cost cap, or late submittal of accounts, can be punished in a number of ways. For minor indiscretions financial penalties and reprimands will be used.”

Other punishments include: deduction of constructor or driver points, limitations on testing, race bans and a reduction of a team’s cost cap going forward.

The most serious penalty is total exclusion from the championship.

jurinius
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Crystal clear of what the commission is going to see :

1 - RB will say Hamilton started the overtake then hit the brakes. // Mercedes answer : Does it mean u are not allowed to engage an overtaking ?
2 - RB will say we have all the measure of the impact and play sensational aspect // Mercedes answer : What about the onboard camera view ? Is that a clean racing move by Max at this corner ?
3 - RB : So why did u give him just 10s penalty if not guilty // Mercedes : Is that a commission to judge the stewards or to review new elements / facts of the incident ?

Just hope we will not add new metrics for penalties like "high adrenaline rate because it is a home race" - "Supicious angriness after being 2nd at qualification sprint" - "Not disapearing at the corner when there is a risk of 51G shock"
“And suddenly I realized that I was no longer driving the car consciously. I was driving it by a kind of instinct, only I was in a different dimension.”
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Hammerfist
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:10 pm
aMessageToCharlie wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:40 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:31 pm
You say every team would do it, well they are not currently doing it, so the reason then I ask is, why are RedBull doing it ? Spening more money on 1 car maybe ?

I think Mercedes bring their updates in pairs, so both drivers have it. I guess if a team really wanted to back 1 driver they would only produce 1 of every upgrade, then spend a little more on the development and make the 1 car faster, when the car gets upgrades to upgraded parts, they then drop on to the number 2 car.

Mercedes certainly havent done this.
If it gave the team any kind of edge, I would fully expect a team like Mercedes to jump on it and take the gains. They are working to extract any kind of performance gains they can get, so if it was beneficial to follow that approach, they'd do it.

IMO Mercedes' approach would be the preferred one as you want both of your cars to be as competitive as possible.

So I would think that RBR's approach this year might more likely be down to them not being able to produce the needed quantity of parts, rather than a strategic move. Especially in a year with relatively few updates planned, the "upgrades to upgraded parts" approach seems unpractical.
Mercedes do it their way because it's team result first, driver result second. Red Bull appears to take the opposite approach and put driver result first, hence why they have no compunction with favouring one driver with upgrades before the other driver.

Given one or other title, I get the feeling that Red Bull would be happy to win the driver title and lose the constructor title, Mercedes would be happy the other way.
That's the way I read it as well. I just don't envision Redbull ordering Max to let Checo past in Austria like Mercedes ordered hamilton to do in Austria because of his damaged car. They would rather the Mclaren beat both Redbulls instead of the championship leader losing points to his teammate.

Redbull has the capacity to bring pairs of updates at every race. Matthew Carter on the Missed Apex podcast has said on more than one occasion that Redbull brings many parts to a weekend, tries them on the car and if the parts do not work they dump them like they are cheap second hand furniture. They choose to put upgrades on Max's car first because he is being heavily favored by the team in a way that no other team on the current grid is doing. This is partly why Ricciardo left, and why every driver that has filled that second seat afterwards has always underperformed. I don't understand why some struggle to see this. It is clear as day.