2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Juzh wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:21 am
ringo wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:33 am
Also luck for the VSC in Qatar to give him that fastest lap point.
Please explain how Hamilton could have gotten fastest lap point in Qatar without the VSC.
Well he could have, but obviously sacrificing the win at the same time, so it would have been an incredibly stupid move.

As soon as Bottas got his puncture, Verstappen was a shoo in for fastest lap with only the small gap to Hamilton and a huge gap behind him meaning he could make the pit stop for new soft tyres toward the end, VSC or not.

The only bit of luck you could maybe ascribe to it is Bottas getting the puncture which virtually guaranteed the point would not go Mercedes' way but c'est la vie!

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WaikeCU
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:35 am
Juzh wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:21 am
ringo wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:33 am
Also luck for the VSC in Qatar to give him that fastest lap point.
Please explain how Hamilton could have gotten fastest lap point in Qatar without the VSC.
Well he could have, but obviously sacrificing the win at the same time, so it would have been an incredibly stupid move.

As soon as Bottas got his puncture, Verstappen was a shoo in for fastest lap with only the small gap to Hamilton and a huge gap behind him meaning he could make the pit stop for new soft tyres toward the end, VSC or not.

The only bit of luck you could maybe ascribe to it is Bottas getting the puncture which virtually guaranteed the point would not go Mercedes' way but c'est la vie!
Lewis was just managing the gap behind him and also just raised a bit of speed when needed. We saw them exchange fastest lap earlier on, but it felt like the Merc was barely on the limit at all. Lewis was avoiding the kerbs when needed, while in Quali he would be running on the ragged edge of them.

Think yesterday he was just focused on getting that W.

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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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WaikeCU wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:01 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:35 am
Juzh wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:21 am

Please explain how Hamilton could have gotten fastest lap point in Qatar without the VSC.
Well he could have, but obviously sacrificing the win at the same time, so it would have been an incredibly stupid move.

As soon as Bottas got his puncture, Verstappen was a shoo in for fastest lap with only the small gap to Hamilton and a huge gap behind him meaning he could make the pit stop for new soft tyres toward the end, VSC or not.

The only bit of luck you could maybe ascribe to it is Bottas getting the puncture which virtually guaranteed the point would not go Mercedes' way but c'est la vie!
Lewis was just managing the gap behind him and also just raised a bit of speed when needed. We saw them exchange fastest lap earlier on, but it felt like the Merc was barely on the limit at all. Lewis was avoiding the kerbs when needed, while in Quali he would be running on the ragged edge of them.

Think yesterday he was just focused on getting that W.
So do I. It would have been utterly stupid to risk the car on the curbs or any kind of incident in pursuit of one point at the possible expense of 25, in those last few laps.

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Juzh
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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WaikeCU wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:01 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:35 am
Juzh wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:21 am

Please explain how Hamilton could have gotten fastest lap point in Qatar without the VSC.
Well he could have, but obviously sacrificing the win at the same time, so it would have been an incredibly stupid move.

As soon as Bottas got his puncture, Verstappen was a shoo in for fastest lap with only the small gap to Hamilton and a huge gap behind him meaning he could make the pit stop for new soft tyres toward the end, VSC or not.

The only bit of luck you could maybe ascribe to it is Bottas getting the puncture which virtually guaranteed the point would not go Mercedes' way but c'est la vie!
We saw them exchange fastest lap earlier on, but it felt like the Merc was barely on the limit at all.
It's true he wasn't pushing hard, but he would need to up his pace by more than 2 seconds compared to his personal best lap on those mediums if he were to try and beat Verstappen's fastest lap on softs. Because hamilton was out of the picture for FL attempt Verstappen didn't use high power mode for his final push lap (1:23.196), he only used mode 6, which is a sort of regular race mode for red bull. For example in hungary 2019 when they went for fastest lap after they've been overtaken they used mode 1.

Could hamilton realistically have pulled it off, even without fear of puncture and car damage? I don't think so.

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Jambier
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Big Tea wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:22 pm
Jambier wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:39 pm
aleks_ader wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:34 pm
I must add that ICE move with penalties was stroke of genius. Its was apparently low hanging fruit. Bottleneck that got solved brilliantly. Nice lateral thinking. Also any device (or setup tweak) introduced so late in championship is huge advantage. Because its very unlikely for other team actually find resources and truly respond to that. Also it makes FIA job very ungrateful. So any late technical directives are very unlikely. Or those changes takes huge effort from coopetitors and steals theirs valuable productive time.

Seems Merc nailed out park whole power unit saga. Smoke and mirrors if u ask me. It works so good that RB PR (also Newey, Paul) team goes all frenzy. They did same in 2018 with Ferrari and 2019 with Red Bull. At end of season they introduced seemingly magic bullet to secure couple of wins. Or they started hiding their performance to make false sense of true scope of theirs capabilities. Practically Merc are doing same things whole hybrid era.
I agree, RB was the outsider all the year in truth, and now Mercedes is finishing the job dominating entirely and with large pace advantage will win both titles.

Hopefully for the last year... F1 will die of this ultra long domination
Well that is up to the other teams. If they are able to catch Merc, good for us we want to see good close racing.
If they do not, they do not deserve to win. As long as there are races someone has to win and it should be the ones that do the best job.

Edit, That does not mean it has to be Merc winning all the time
That the worst on this situation: Mercedes is doing the better job and so deserve to win... but this is awful when you want to see other results :mrgreen:

e30ernest
e30ernest
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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I don't know... it looked to me that Hamilton was saving as much of his tires and battery as possible to make one big push at the final lap. It's not the first time he's done that.

Whether or not he could have pulled it off is something we will never know. I don't think he could beat Verstappen on fresh softs though, but I wouldn't be surprised if he at least tried.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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You guys remember Ferrari's heated floor from 2010(?)? the floor with the cooling plates.

Could Mercedes be running a metal plate to heat up the air under the car thus reducing drag? They could also be doing it with the rear wing too.
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El Scorchio
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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e30ernest wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:33 pm
I don't know... it looked to me that Hamilton was saving as much of his tires and battery as possible to make one big push at the final lap. It's not the first time he's done that.

Whether or not he could have pulled it off is something we will never know. I don't think he could beat Verstappen on fresh softs though, but I wouldn't be surprised if he at least tried.
That's true. He could have had a go at least, but I don't think he'd have stood much of a chance given Verstappen was on fresh softs.
I genuinely do not believe the VSC was timed specifically to stop him attempting it though. Perhaps if it was him on new softs with Verstappen on old mediums, but definitely not the way it actually shook down in the race.

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WaikeCU
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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To me yesterday, I thought they decided to box Bottas and kind of retire him, but let him rejoin towards the end of the race in a quali trim fitted with fresh boots just to set the fastest lap.

Any ideas what made them decide to retire Bottas? Steering damage?

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Remind me, what’s the rules with FL? If you’re not in the top 10 you cannot take it? Is that just the point you cannot take or does that mean they exclude your FL all together, so N/A?

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WaikeCU
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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AeroDynamic wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:31 pm
Remind me, what’s the rules with FL? If you’re not in the top 10 you cannot take it? Is that just the point you cannot take or does that mean they exclude your FL all together, so N/A?
Nah, you'll get the fastest lap, but you won't get a point for it, because you're not in the Top 10.

djones
djones
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Max was always in a much better place to get FL as he was behind on the track.

With one lap to go, he could pit and it would have been too late for Lewis to do the same. But if Lewis had done that he would have lost the lead.

I kind of got the impression Mercedes were not too bothered. All they need to focus on is winning the last two races and it does not matter what happens with the fastest laps.

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siskue2005
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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djones wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:55 pm
Max was always in a much better place to get FL as he was behind on the track.

With one lap to go, he could pit and it would have been too late for Lewis to do the same. But if Lewis had done that he would have lost the lead.

I kind of got the impression Mercedes were not too bothered. All they need to focus on is winning the last two races and it does not matter what happens with the fastest laps.
Exactly, all Lewis needs to do is win the next two races to become World champion

And all Bottas needs to do is finish 4th or higher to secure team championship

Redbull can have the fastest lap or not - that's not gonna change the championship

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Big Tea
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Jambier wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:09 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:22 pm
Jambier wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:39 pm


I agree, RB was the outsider all the year in truth, and now Mercedes is finishing the job dominating entirely and with large pace advantage will win both titles.

Hopefully for the last year... F1 will die of this ultra long domination
Well that is up to the other teams. If they are able to catch Merc, good for us we want to see good close racing.
If they do not, they do not deserve to win. As long as there are races someone has to win and it should be the ones that do the best job.

Edit, That does not mean it has to be Merc winning all the time
That the worst on this situation: Mercedes is doing the better job and so deserve to win... but this is awful when you want to see other results :mrgreen:
As long as it has been a good fight I don't really car who wins as long as it is a straight (non political fight).

Having said that though I do feel I would like to see Lewis win this year just to get the record of titles, after that, bring em all on. I'm sure Max will get a string probably over the next 3 years.
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dans79
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Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

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Big Tea wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:11 pm
Jambier wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:09 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:22 pm


Well that is up to the other teams. If they are able to catch Merc, good for us we want to see good close racing.
If they do not, they do not deserve to win. As long as there are races someone has to win and it should be the ones that do the best job.

Edit, That does not mean it has to be Merc winning all the time
That the worst on this situation: Mercedes is doing the better job and so deserve to win... but this is awful when you want to see other results :mrgreen:
As long as it has been a good fight I don't really car who wins as long as it is a straight (non political fight).

Having said that though I do feel I would like to see Lewis win this year just to get the record of titles, after that, bring em all on. I'm sure Max will get a string probably over the next 3 years.
That might or might not be the case over the next decade. I think a lot depends on how the new aero rules effect how closely the cars can race. If the racing is close it might be like the 60's through the early 80's again where everything was a lot more variable!

look at back to back wdcs

if you look at 3 or more you only have:

1954-1957 Juan Manuel Fangio
2000-2004 Michael Schumacher
2010-2013 Sebastian Vettel
2017-2020 Lewis Hamilton

if you look at 2 or more you have:

1952-1953 Alberto Ascari
1954-1957 Juan Manuel Fangio
1959-1960 Jack Brabham
1985-1986 Alain Prost
1990-1991 Ayrton Senna
1994-1995 Michael Schumacher
1998-1999 Mika Häkkinen
2000-2004 Michael Schumacher
2005-2006 Fernando Alonso
2010-2013 Sebastian Vettel
2014-2015 Lewis Hamilton
2017-2020 Lewis Hamilton

A big gap exists between Jack and Alain when no driver could win consistently.
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