2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
tangodjango
tangodjango
24
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:38 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Big Tea wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:01 pm
tangodjango wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:52 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:40 am
If I were Mercedes/Toto/INEOS , I'd be happy to sign a 4yr deal with Lewis with a few performance clauses. For example, he needs to be beating his team mate more often than not, if he fails this, then pay cuts kick in. So Lewis wont want to just cruise around for a few years. If age does catch up with his, Merc get to cut his pay ect.
If Lewis believes in himself, he wont have a problem with this surely ?
I wouldn't be surprised if it's a 2+2 deal. With the +2 being options.
I also foresee Russel coming in for 2022 or latest 2023. Given that they know what Lewis/Bottas can contribute on car development direction they might feel comfortable dropping Bottas since the next generation of cars will be so vastly different as they long as they have Lewis, Bottas's influence might not even be required. Also say they sign Russell in 2022 for around 5 million € they will be effectively be saving 5 against paying Bottas 10.
If Russell is not at Merc for 2022 I would imagine he will have been fishing up and down the paddock this year and will use his trap door.
I doubt that. Mercedes are too systemically strong to collapse as a team. They have the best technical team and best engine and cutting edge infrastructure and production. They are pretty much second to none in any department to ANY team. In addition Daimler has committed for atleast 5 years with the F1 team being forecast as a profit centre. Additionally where would Russel go? Ferrari have their number 1 and will look to induct Schumacher jr. if he is upto scratch. Red Bull will be Verstappen territory with Tsunoda long term favourite for the second seat, McLaren is fine for 2-3 years. He's not stupid, he will wait for Bottas to be dropped whether it be 22 or 23. Mercedes will be a cutting edge team for the next 5 years in their current form atleast.
“Hamilton’s talent is perhaps even more than that of Ayrton or Schumacher or Fernando." - Rubens Barrichello

User avatar
adrianjordan
24
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:34 am
Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

astracrazy wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:40 pm
adrianjordan wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:26 pm
fritticaldi wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:13 pm
Lewis Hamilton's contract still in limbo with the 2021 F1 season set to start March 28. I think Mercedes is probably forcing the Englishman to sign for just one year so he can beat Michael Schumacher's record. Mercedes clearly doesnt want Hamilton to sign a long term contract. With the recent sale of 30% of AMG-Mercedes to Ineos , many are speculating the three pointed star team wont be around in a few years. What do you Hamster fans think?
The only people speculating that Mercedes might leave F1 are Internet trolls, journalists with headlines to make up and people who, for some reason, just don't understand that companies rarely turn away from profitable activities. F1 as a marketing platform has always been a good investment for Mercedes, the F1 budget gives way, way, WAY more exposure than spending the same amount on traditional marketing would. With the new rules coming in that only improves the return on investment even more.

As for Hamster fans. I just don't see Richard Hammond cutting it in F1. He has too many crashes..... 😂
It's not internet trolls, its people who can see the writing on the wall vs Mercedes F1 fans who think this will never end.

It is a good ROI for Daimler whilst they are winning and Lewis is around (not just for what he brings on track, but off as well), there is no guarantee this will continue to be the case. Manufactures come and go, we have seen this time and time again and there is nothing to show this is any different with Daimler.

If you don't think that Daimler reducing their ownership in the most successful F1 team of all time is a signal that they are looking to step aside sometime in the future - then I don't know what you think it is. You say that it is people who "just don't understand that companies rarely turn away from profitable activities" yet this is exactly what it is. They sold 30% of this profitable activity. If the ROI was going to increase as much as you predict, then it would make even less sense to sell. When in reality, it will never be better than the last few years.

I personally see a slow transition, or setting one up, of the team which allows Daimler to pull out without jeopardising the actual F1 team itself.
Reduce costs further while still benefiting from all the marketing value. It really is that simple. The F1 team will not actually cost Daimler a penny under the new cost cap. The exposure it brings on a worldwide platform is worth billions in traditional marketing.

Okay, tell you what. Since you're so convinced they will walk away at some point, despite being actively involved in the sport since the mid 90s. What is the logical reason you would see them having to throw away the marketing value and profit of the F1 team?

I can't think of one unless F1 suddenly has a disastrous image crisis.
Favourite driver: Lando Norris
Favourite team: McLaren

Turned down the chance to meet Vettel at Silverstone in 2007. He was a test driver at the time and I didn't think it was worth queuing!! 🤦🏻‍♂️

astracrazy
astracrazy
31
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:04 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

adrianjordan wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:00 am
astracrazy wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:40 pm
adrianjordan wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:26 pm


The only people speculating that Mercedes might leave F1 are Internet trolls, journalists with headlines to make up and people who, for some reason, just don't understand that companies rarely turn away from profitable activities. F1 as a marketing platform has always been a good investment for Mercedes, the F1 budget gives way, way, WAY more exposure than spending the same amount on traditional marketing would. With the new rules coming in that only improves the return on investment even more.

As for Hamster fans. I just don't see Richard Hammond cutting it in F1. He has too many crashes..... 😂
It's not internet trolls, its people who can see the writing on the wall vs Mercedes F1 fans who think this will never end.

It is a good ROI for Daimler whilst they are winning and Lewis is around (not just for what he brings on track, but off as well), there is no guarantee this will continue to be the case. Manufactures come and go, we have seen this time and time again and there is nothing to show this is any different with Daimler.

If you don't think that Daimler reducing their ownership in the most successful F1 team of all time is a signal that they are looking to step aside sometime in the future - then I don't know what you think it is. You say that it is people who "just don't understand that companies rarely turn away from profitable activities" yet this is exactly what it is. They sold 30% of this profitable activity. If the ROI was going to increase as much as you predict, then it would make even less sense to sell. When in reality, it will never be better than the last few years.

I personally see a slow transition, or setting one up, of the team which allows Daimler to pull out without jeopardising the actual F1 team itself.
Reduce costs further while still benefiting from all the marketing value. It really is that simple. The F1 team will not actually cost Daimler a penny under the new cost cap. The exposure it brings on a worldwide platform is worth billions in traditional marketing.

Okay, tell you what. Since you're so convinced they will walk away at some point, despite being actively involved in the sport since the mid 90s. What is the logical reason you would see them having to throw away the marketing value and profit of the F1 team?

I can't think of one unless F1 suddenly has a disastrous image crisis.
Well you tell me.

If it wasn't going to cost them a penny, the exposure would be worth billions in traditional marketing and it would be un-logical to throw away the marketing value and profit - what explanation do you have for them selling 30% of the team?

I'm not disputing your points by the way and respect your argument. But I'm trying to see where you are coming from with your explanation and linking it with their actions.

I see it as cashing in and creating an exit strategy without jeopardising the team if they decide to pull out, because as I said - a lot could change for their outlook if they are no longer winning and Lewis has moved on.

One good point you make is about them being involved in the sport since the 90s and that was mostly in a partnership. Maybe they eventually want to go back to a type of Mclaren-Mercedes arrangement instead of full team ownership? Could you see that?

Jolle
Jolle
132
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

astracrazy wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:02 am
adrianjordan wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:00 am
astracrazy wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:40 pm


It's not internet trolls, its people who can see the writing on the wall vs Mercedes F1 fans who think this will never end.

It is a good ROI for Daimler whilst they are winning and Lewis is around (not just for what he brings on track, but off as well), there is no guarantee this will continue to be the case. Manufactures come and go, we have seen this time and time again and there is nothing to show this is any different with Daimler.

If you don't think that Daimler reducing their ownership in the most successful F1 team of all time is a signal that they are looking to step aside sometime in the future - then I don't know what you think it is. You say that it is people who "just don't understand that companies rarely turn away from profitable activities" yet this is exactly what it is. They sold 30% of this profitable activity. If the ROI was going to increase as much as you predict, then it would make even less sense to sell. When in reality, it will never be better than the last few years.

I personally see a slow transition, or setting one up, of the team which allows Daimler to pull out without jeopardising the actual F1 team itself.
Reduce costs further while still benefiting from all the marketing value. It really is that simple. The F1 team will not actually cost Daimler a penny under the new cost cap. The exposure it brings on a worldwide platform is worth billions in traditional marketing.

Okay, tell you what. Since you're so convinced they will walk away at some point, despite being actively involved in the sport since the mid 90s. What is the logical reason you would see them having to throw away the marketing value and profit of the F1 team?

I can't think of one unless F1 suddenly has a disastrous image crisis.
Well you tell me.

If it wasn't going to cost them a penny, the exposure would be worth billions in traditional marketing and it would be un-logical to throw away the marketing value and profit - what explanation do you have for them selling 30% of the team?

I'm not disputing your points by the way and respect your argument. But I'm trying to see where you are coming from with your explanation and linking it with their actions.

I see it as cashing in and creating an exit strategy without jeopardising the team if they decide to pull out, because as I said - a lot could change for their outlook if they are no longer winning and Lewis has moved on.

One good point you make is about them being involved in the sport since the 90s and that was mostly in a partnership. Maybe they eventually want to go back to a type of Mclaren-Mercedes arrangement instead of full team ownership? Could you see that?
They owened more of the McLaren group back then then they do now own their own team plus it’s providing even more marketing goodies.
Even at the start of the Mercedes team as we know it now, they “only” had around 30% of shares.
They key might just be INEOS itself, having a polymer partner close by as a manufacturer of steel cars that is searching for the next step in car design, can be very beneficial. Just look at how much BMW have invested into their i cars and how this relates to an already money making R&D centre at AMG-Mercedes F1.

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
507
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Big Tea wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:01 pm
tangodjango wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:52 pm
NathanOlder wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:40 am
If I were Mercedes/Toto/INEOS , I'd be happy to sign a 4yr deal with Lewis with a few performance clauses. For example, he needs to be beating his team mate more often than not, if he fails this, then pay cuts kick in. So Lewis wont want to just cruise around for a few years. If age does catch up with his, Merc get to cut his pay ect.
If Lewis believes in himself, he wont have a problem with this surely ?
I wouldn't be surprised if it's a 2+2 deal. With the +2 being options.
I also foresee Russel coming in for 2022 or latest 2023. Given that they know what Lewis/Bottas can contribute on car development direction they might feel comfortable dropping Bottas since the next generation of cars will be so vastly different as they long as they have Lewis, Bottas's influence might not even be required. Also say they sign Russell in 2022 for around 5 million € they will be effectively be saving 5 against paying Bottas 10.
If Russell is not at Merc for 2022 I would imagine he will have been fishing up and down the paddock this year and will use his trap door.
If they had a firm contract for him for 2023 I think he would wait around. He's only in his third year. No rush for him i suspect. Some drivers wait longer. Perez only just got his chance after 11 years waiting. I said 2022 was Russel's seat to lose, but now i have reconsidered. I see Bottas again in 2022 for development reasons and then making way for Russell in 2023. Russell will have two years with Lewis before Lewis goes to Williams or Ferrari in 2025.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌

====Zen level====
|||||||<@>||^||<@>|||||||

aMessageToCharlie
aMessageToCharlie
0
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:28 pm

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Toto throwing BOMBS at Ferrari for requesting a balance of power. And rightfully so imo.

"If you recall, we had a tokens system in the past when the regulations came out. And because some of our colleagues wished the tokens to be removed in order to catch up, we agreed to a removal of the tokens,” Wolff explained.

"Now some of our colleagues come back with a system of convergence, which honestly said, it is a bit of an insult when you look at the last few years, and the development of performances in the engine.

“Ferrari was clearly the most powerful engine in 2018, and by far the best in 2019. And we developed our engine, we continued to push the boundaries, and we brought something to the track in 2020 that we were hoping would catch up.

"That's why I cannot comprehend that any car manufacturer that trusts in its abilities to develop a power unit and a chassis would want some kind of mechanism that would balance the power units out. I don't think anybody would accept such a humiliation in public.”

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/949444/1/ ... gence-idea

User avatar
Morteza
2296
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:23 pm
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

User avatar
Morteza
2296
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:23 pm
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

Jolle
Jolle
132
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Naming wise they are going to tempt fate when all the regs change next year 😂

Bit like when RedBull announced their “are beaten” 2014 car.

User avatar
fritticaldi
3
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:55 pm
Location: Canada

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

According to former GP driver and Le Mans winner , Jan Lammers Lewis Hamilton's demands are immoral. Hamilton isn't thinking in the optic of a world pandemic where there are financial constraints. Also Mercedes wants to sell cars and that adding one more World Championship at the salary Hamilton wants is nonsense. The Englishman is asking 40 million British Pounds per year on a 4 year contract. The Dutchman claims the contract negotitions arent going well because the two parties are far apart. He also says that it will be the driver to concede and that Mercedes will hold firm.

User avatar
NathanOlder
48
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:05 am
Location: Kent

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

fritticaldi wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:24 am
According to former GP driver and Le Mans winner , Jan Lammers Lewis Hamilton's demands are immoral. Hamilton isn't thinking in the optic of a world pandemic where there are financial constraints. Also Mercedes wants to sell cars and that adding one more World Championship at the salary Hamilton wants is nonsense. The Englishman is asking 40 million British Pounds per year on a 4 year contract. The Dutchman claims the contract negotitions arent going well because the two parties are far apart. He also says that it will be the driver to concede and that Mercedes will hold firm.
No, what that is , is Jan Lammers guessing. So its meaningless.

At very best , this could be in the silly season thread, certainly not the team thread.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.

New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS5 & PC

Restomaniac
Restomaniac
0
Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 12:09 am
Location: Hull

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

fritticaldi wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:24 am
According to former GP driver and Le Mans winner , Jan Lammers Lewis Hamilton's demands are immoral. Hamilton isn't thinking in the optic of a world pandemic where there are financial constraints. Also Mercedes wants to sell cars and that adding one more World Championship at the salary Hamilton wants is nonsense. The Englishman is asking 40 million British Pounds per year on a 4 year contract. The Dutchman claims the contract negotitions arent going well because the two parties are far apart. He also says that it will be the driver to concede and that Mercedes will hold firm.
Sounds like whole load of guess work to me.

Jolle
Jolle
132
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:58 pm
Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

fritticaldi wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:24 am
According to former GP driver and Le Mans winner , Jan Lammers Lewis Hamilton's demands are immoral. Hamilton isn't thinking in the optic of a world pandemic where there are financial constraints. Also Mercedes wants to sell cars and that adding one more World Championship at the salary Hamilton wants is nonsense. The Englishman is asking 40 million British Pounds per year on a 4 year contract. The Dutchman claims the contract negotitions arent going well because the two parties are far apart. He also says that it will be the driver to concede and that Mercedes will hold firm.
I think Jan Lammers is payed by line by his sponsors whenever he’s quoted. He is part of the Dutch “max is the best ever and can’t do anything wrong and Hamilton is a big baby and an arrogant ass that can’t drive” group. All his comments should be dismissed more quickly then Spanish tabloids on F1.

User avatar
El Scorchio
20
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post

Jolle wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:24 pm
fritticaldi wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 2:24 am
According to former GP driver and Le Mans winner , Jan Lammers Lewis Hamilton's demands are immoral. Hamilton isn't thinking in the optic of a world pandemic where there are financial constraints. Also Mercedes wants to sell cars and that adding one more World Championship at the salary Hamilton wants is nonsense. The Englishman is asking 40 million British Pounds per year on a 4 year contract. The Dutchman claims the contract negotitions arent going well because the two parties are far apart. He also says that it will be the driver to concede and that Mercedes will hold firm.
I think Jan Lammers is payed by line by his sponsors whenever he’s quoted. He is part of the Dutch “max is the best ever and can’t do anything wrong and Hamilton is a big baby and an arrogant ass that can’t drive” group. All his comments should be dismissed more quickly then Spanish tabloids on F1.
It's true. The Dutch media is about as balanced as the Italian and certain sections of the British media. You really can't get anything objective as there's so obviously a big agenda or bias. What amuses me is when some people take the sources that say what they want to hear as gospel truth no matter how reliable, while completely dismissing anything else they don't want to hear as garbage or fake news. It's nothing more than clickbait really.

User avatar
_cerber1
218
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:50 pm
Location: From Russia with love

Re: 2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

Post