2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
User avatar
nzjrs
60
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:21 am
Location: Redacted

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

I must have watched a different race to everyone here because I thought Perez did fine?

User avatar
Wouter
91
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Zynerji wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:48 pm
I couldn't help but think after the race that RBR would have been better off putting a pure rookie alongside Max this year. Yuki or even Mick could have been brought in, given Max's setup, and learned how to drive an F1 car that way to start. Instead they picked a driver based upon his style skills (tyre preservation, defensive driving), only to find that he loses almost all of those bonuses because he admittedly needs to "relearn" a new style.

Watching Mick outdrive that Haas makes me really wonder where he would be against Max in the RBR.
That would have to be a rookie who can qualify very high right away and there is none.
Moreover, a rookie needs a lot of time to get used to an F1 car.
The Power of Honda!

User avatar
dans79
252
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Wouter wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:53 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:48 pm
I couldn't help but think after the race that RBR would have been better off putting a pure rookie alongside Max this year. Yuki or even Mick could have been brought in, given Max's setup, and learned how to drive an F1 car that way to start. Instead they picked a driver based upon his style skills (tyre preservation, defensive driving), only to find that he loses almost all of those bonuses because he admittedly needs to "relearn" a new style.

Watching Mick outdrive that Haas makes me really wonder where he would be against Max in the RBR.
That would have to be a rookie who can qualify very high right away and there is none.
Moreover, a rookie needs a lot of time to get used to an F1 car.
Not to mention, by the time they're an F1 rookie they have developed their own driving style for many years.
191 103 103 7

User avatar
Zynerji
108
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Wouter wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:53 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:48 pm
I couldn't help but think after the race that RBR would have been better off putting a pure rookie alongside Max this year. Yuki or even Mick could have been brought in, given Max's setup, and learned how to drive an F1 car that way to start. Instead they picked a driver based upon his style skills (tyre preservation, defensive driving), only to find that he loses almost all of those bonuses because he admittedly needs to "relearn" a new style.

Watching Mick outdrive that Haas makes me really wonder where he would be against Max in the RBR.
That would have to be a rookie who can qualify very high right away and there is none.
Moreover, a rookie needs a lot of time to get used to an F1 car.
I understand, but we have 3 excellent rookies from F2 this year, and one is already on top of his ride, one is almost there, and one is hopeless.

I'm sure Ferrari would have "loaned" Mick to RBR for his development phase...

User avatar
Zynerji
108
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:14 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

dans79 wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:55 pm
Wouter wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:53 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 12:48 pm
I couldn't help but think after the race that RBR would have been better off putting a pure rookie alongside Max this year. Yuki or even Mick could have been brought in, given Max's setup, and learned how to drive an F1 car that way to start. Instead they picked a driver based upon his style skills (tyre preservation, defensive driving), only to find that he loses almost all of those bonuses because he admittedly needs to "relearn" a new style.

Watching Mick outdrive that Haas makes me really wonder where he would be against Max in the RBR.
That would have to be a rookie who can qualify very high right away and there is none.
Moreover, a rookie needs a lot of time to get used to an F1 car.
Not to mention, by the time they're an F1 rookie they have developed their own driving style for many years.
I agree with this, but I also know that when changing levels, there is a re assessment of what works and not. This is where Checo has years of knowledge he's trying to overcome, and the rookies would be starting from scratch, giving them less burden to overcome.

User avatar
Bandit1216
19
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:55 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Hmmmm. It's all hard to compare. Seeing how close and occasionally even better Bottas is in Quali to Ham, he's quite good. But in the races he's more like Kimi's favorite quote "Bhmoaaa".

I would like to see an RB 1 - 2 sooner than later but it might take some time. Wondering what Monaco will bring. Is not that merc has loads of more power and less downforce anymore, or is it? Monaco might tell us more.
But just suppose it weren't hypothetical.

nacho
nacho
6
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:38 am

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

I think we need to see how Perez does, changing cars is not trivial, if towards the end of the season's he's not adapted then it's another thing.

LHamilton
LHamilton
0
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:40 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Horner and Verstappen starting to rumble the same words that happend under Albon in regards to Perez;

"[...]because we desperately need him to be in that gap, so that Mercedes don't have the strategic options that they had." - Horner

"[...]And in the end I am always alone in the fight. So they can easily just make another stop, because there is a gap behind them. That doesn't help either, of course." - Verstappen

Source: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red- ... r/6506014/

Obviously, this is nothing new. But the pressure is piling on Perez. And thus far, RB is not really satisfied with his performance judging by the remarks.

That being said, Horner still optimistic that Perez will find the time needed to be in the mix.

SuperCNJ
SuperCNJ
2
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:36 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

LHamilton wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 2:10 pm
Horner and Verstappen starting to rumble the same words that happend under Albon in regards to Perez;

"[...]because we desperately need him to be in that gap, so that Mercedes don't have the strategic options that they had." - Horner

"[...]And in the end I am always alone in the fight. So they can easily just make another stop, because there is a gap behind them. That doesn't help either, of course." - Verstappen

Source: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red- ... r/6506014/

Obviously, this is nothing new. But the pressure is piling on Perez. And thus far, RB is not really satisfied with his performance judging by the remarks.

That being said, Horner still optimistic that Perez will find the time needed to be in the mix.
It sounds to me more a case of feeling desperate than Perez not doing a good enough job. I think Perez has been pretty outstanding given the time he has had with the car and the team. Let's not forget that all his predecessors have been in the RB family for many years. Yes, Perez didn't qualify well on Saturday and that is what ruined his race and ultimately RB's chance of winning the race but in my opinion, Perez has so far done a solid job, a better job than both Albon and Gasly - neither of which are bad drivers.

Horner needs to step back and realise that any driver will need time to adjust and you just cannot expect someone to be on Max's pace after only a few races, certainly not someone coming in completely cold. It took Max almost a season to fully adjust to the car and get to Daniel's level when they were teammates.

I think if RB were 3rd or 4th in the championship they probably wouldn't be pointing the finger at Perez and may even be praising him but I guess when you're in the running for the championship, it's difficult to see these things clearly.

User avatar
Sieper
68
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

LHamilton wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 2:10 pm
Horner and Verstappen starting to rumble the same words that happend under Albon in regards to Perez;

"[...]because we desperately need him to be in that gap, so that Mercedes don't have the strategic options that they had." - Horner

"[...]And in the end I am always alone in the fight. So they can easily just make another stop, because there is a gap behind them. That doesn't help either, of course." - Verstappen

Source: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/red- ... r/6506014/

Obviously, this is nothing new. But the pressure is piling on Perez. And thus far, RB is not really satisfied with his performance judging by the remarks.

That being said, Horner still optimistic that Perez will find the time needed to be in the mix.
your quote is literally the only thing that Max said about it (so far) and I have seen him make that on live television, it was just a side remark at the end of answering the question how his race went. Perez himself said he needed 5 races. That 5th race is due now.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

User avatar
Phil
66
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:22 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Personally, I think Checo is the right man for that seat and IMO Verstappen will learn a thing or to from him. Verstappen may be experienced and well seasoned, but he is also rather young. A driver like Perez who is known for being consistent and also extremely good on tires is something that Verstappen can still benefit from. Not suggesting Max isn't good - but tire wear is an issue that could either be down to traits of the car, or to some degree how Max drives and extracts his performance. Or somewhere in between.

It will be interesting if and when Checo gets better at driving the car, if and how his tire management compares against Verstappen. Will he be better at conserving them? At what pace?

Speed is not something Max lacks. So putting an equally fast young driver next to him is probably not something that will be huge benefit.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

User avatar
Wouter
91
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post





The Power of Honda!

User avatar
Wouter
91
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

The Power of Honda!

User avatar
godlameroso
305
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Food for thought, in Portimao, both Hamilton and Verstappen used the hard tires, easy one stop, no pace difference to the medium, Verstappen could stay within touching distance of Hamilton ~5 seconds. In Bahrain, Hamilton won because he used the Hard tire. In Barcelona he won because he used the more tire performance friendly strategy. What was the difference for Verstappen, in both Bahrain and Barcelona? Fear of using the hard tire, the tire that let him do the one stop in Portimao. The same tire was in play in Barcelona, even if the hard was a little slower, it would have made the one stop work, just like it did for Hamilton. Verstappen spent too much time nursing his tires, trying to make a one stop work with the medium was the wrong call, the hard would have done it with no fear of thermal degradation, which is what Verstappen was fighting.

The brutal honest truth, selfishness cost him the win. He tried to beat Mercedes by himself, he called himself into the pits, and he decided to nurse the tires trying to make it to the end. The Red Bull pit crew can do sub 2 second pit stops, they're better than Mercedes in that regard. That's huge, that speed difference will prevent a one lap undercut, and Verstappen didn't have faith in his crew. He was a sitting duck, and strategy could have made a difference had he not tried to win on his own.

Had he copied Hamilton's strategy, the pit crew could have made a difference, he made a quick call and the team wasn't ready, he didn't rely on the team the second time and that's an experience thing. Even if he got stuck behind Bottas, he should have pitted again, he underestimated the power of the undercut, and again, had fear of using the hard tire, even though it proved itself quite durable in Portimao. Turn 10 turned out to be a rear tire killer due to high thermal loads it placed on them, the hard tire would have coped well with that, much better than anticipated.

Oh well, no use dwelling on the past, Monaco is an excellent chance for a 1-2.
Saishū kōnā

User avatar
godlameroso
305
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Beating Hamilton is more important than beating Bottas, in fact it's better if Bottas wins than Hamilton from a strategic perspective.
Saishū kōnā