2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Juzh
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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godlameroso wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:15 pm
Tizz wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:07 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:38 pm
Anyone ever consider that after consolidating P2 and Hamilton being P5 maybe it was a strategic decision to turn down the engine ?
No, actually I didn't after Max got his ass whooped in qualy with more than 3 tenths.
By that logic Hamilton got his ass whooped in qualifying by Russell, and Norris, and track conditions had no role to play in the pace disparity?
You're trying to spin changeable conditions where hamilton dropped the ball a bit as being similar to situation in turkey's Q3 where it was pretty much dry and everyone could do maximum attack laps. And it wasn't just q3, it was perfectly clear almost from of the start of weekend red bull have problems and mercedes is flying.

Alexf1
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:10 pm
Kingshark wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:04 pm
Alexf1 wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:02 pm


I have great expectations, RB have always been competitive in Austin in the past so set up wise they should be fine and Honda has been rumoured to have 10kW in hand which they could use when needed as engine nr 3 and 4 only have to last 6 instead of 8 races.
Is this actually true?
I find it really hard to believe that they have an extra ~13.5 HP they aren't using just because. The championship is far to close for that.
This years engine was rushed forward 1 year. And the plan was to make sure it would be able to reliably do 8 races. What if after 8 months of dyno work for 2022 the result is that you can reliably do a few horses extra, would you wait for 2022? Especially if this engine just needs to do 6 races.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Juzh wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:20 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:15 pm
Tizz wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:07 pm

No, actually I didn't after Max got his ass whooped in qualy with more than 3 tenths.
By that logic Hamilton got his ass whooped in qualifying by Russell, and Norris, and track conditions had no role to play in the pace disparity?
You're trying to spin changeable conditions where hamilton dropped the ball a bit as being similar to situation in turkey's Q3 where it was pretty much dry and everyone could do maximum attack laps. And it wasn't just q3, it was perfectly clear almost from of the start of weekend red bull have problems and mercedes is flying.
I'm mocking the delusional idea that Mercedes is suddenly back to .3 ahead of Red Bull on all tracks.
Saishū kōnā

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Tizz
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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godlameroso wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:15 pm
Tizz wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:07 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:38 pm
Anyone ever consider that after consolidating P2 and Hamilton being P5 maybe it was a strategic decision to turn down the engine ?
No, actually I didn't after Max got his ass whooped in qualy with more than 3 tenths.
By that logic Hamilton got his ass whooped in qualifying by Russell, and Norris, and track conditions had no role to play in the pace disparity?
I really don't understand what you are trying to tell ?

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Tizz
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Gillian wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:11 pm
Tizz wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:05 pm
Gillian wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:58 pm
If Verstappen says the hardest thing was staying awake during a wet race, it's pretty obvious he was taking it easy.

Its just that Bottas wasn't pushing that hard either most likely, probably managing the gap to Verstappen.
He also said he would have killed the tires if he would have pushed more. So there was nothing to do really. And yes, I was arguing that Bottas was managing the gap with Max, not his tires, illustrated by how and when he took fastest lap.
Yes agreed. I don't know how anyone could interpret it otherwise.
It was there. Literally.
Tizz wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:24 pm
Max wasn't anywhere near Bottas' pace. Bottas managed to take fastest lap on the very end on old tires with almost 2 sec difference. If Max would have had the pace and the tires, he would have given it a try to take the fastest lap. Bottas was cruising and managing the gap to Max, not his tires.

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:33 pm
Manoah2u wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:03 pm
dans79 wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:41 pm


Austin is a crap shoot this time of year, it can be hot and bone dry for over a week, or it can be cold and wet for just as long.
I don't remember, has it ever rained during a COTA F1 GP?
2015 was a wet start and a dry finish.

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I think it's fairly clear to the unbiased observer that RBR and Merc are incredibly close, so much so that little differences, such as track temperature, will swing the performance between the 2 each weekend. As fans we should be loving that situation!!
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Jaisonas
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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My biggest hope really is that Honda was running in a very conservative mode or even safe mode cause ferrari was matching RB's speed in most sections in q3...
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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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The whole German interview with Ralf Bach.

Translated:

Marko: “If the performance differences [RBR vs Merc] continue to be the same as in Istanbul, we will have a problem.
Of the six race tracks, only the courses in Mexico and Sao Paulo play a role in our cards because of their altitude.
The rest seems to be Mercedes-Land at the moment. "

As a first measure, the chassis from Max Verstappen will be put through its paces . “It wasn't ideal in Istanbul,” explains Marko.
“Max constantly complained about understeer, which we just couldn't get away.”
So it cannot be ruled out that the Dutchman will drive with a new chassis at the next race in Austin.
“We'll keep fighting . Positive is also how relaxed Max is dealing with the current situation.
He remains very calm and only points out the disadvantages that he has at the moment. "

-----------

They will now first check Max's car from head to toe, because they couldn't get rid of that understeer.
There is talk about a new chassis, but Marko does not go into that.
Fortunately, Newey is back to work after his bicycle accident four months ago.
RBR had a film/test day in Istanbul last Tuesday and
Max was in Milton Keynes all day yesterday. All good signs.
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NathanOlder
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Wouter wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:19 am
The whole German interview with Ralf Bach.

Translated:

Marko: “If the performance differences [RBR vs Merc] continue to be the same as in Istanbul, we will have a problem.
Of the six race tracks, only the courses in Mexico and Sao Paulo play a role in our cards because of their altitude.
The rest seems to be Mercedes-Land at the moment. "

As a first measure, the chassis from Max Verstappen will be put through its paces . “It wasn't ideal in Istanbul,” explains Marko.
“Max constantly complained about understeer, which we just couldn't get away.”
So it cannot be ruled out that the Dutchman will drive with a new chassis at the next race in Austin.
“We'll keep fighting . Positive is also how relaxed Max is dealing with the current situation.
He remains very calm and only points out the disadvantages that he has at the moment. "

-----------

They will now first check Max's car from head to toe, because they couldn't get rid of that understeer.
There is talk about a new chassis, but Marko does not go into that.
Fortunately, Newey is back to work after his bicycle accident four months ago.
RBR had a film/test day in Istanbul last Tuesday and
Max was in Milton Keynes all day yesterday. All good signs.
To take a new chassis this late on, would RedBull still have an available budget to afford this ? I wonder how much the teams leave spare to cover for this kind of thing ?! Then if they overspend to introduce a new chassis, what would be the penalty ?

Anyone have any idea ?
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Sieper
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Redbull does not buy the chassis. They make it. The salary of the persons working in the carbon fiber moulding department is surely already accounted for in this years budget. It will just be a matter of having time to built another.
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Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Sieper wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:26 pm
Redbull does not buy the chassis. They make it. The salary of the persons working in the carbon fiber moulding department is surely already accounted for in this years budget. It will just be a matter of having time to built another.
And the materials, the energy to run the autoclave, etc. It's all part of the cost of the part, not just the wages of the man doing the work. Look at comments from Horner and Wolff earlier this season after both Max and Valteri's cars were destroyed. Mercedes missed a tyre test opportunity because the cost of rebuilding Botta's car meant they had no headroom in the cap limited budget. Horner made comments about the cost cap and the affect of it after Max's Silverstone crash.

I think it would be unwise to just assume the teams can knock up a new chassis easily within the cost cap.
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etusch
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I assume that they already have at least one core frame as a spare chassis for being ready to unexpected circumstances. Otherwise I think it is hard to built it in this short time. But even it wasn't case they can not give up because of cost of building a new one.

TimW
TimW
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Sieper wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:26 pm
Redbull does not buy the chassis. They make it. The salary of the persons working in the carbon fiber moulding department is surely already accounted for in this years budget. It will just be a matter of having time to built another.
They always bring a spare to the races, so they have the chassis already. In reality it will cost nothing.

But I don't know how the financial arrangement is. I could imagine that the chassis department is a separate entity 'supplying' red bull, and that the chassis only gets 'bought' when it is used. So it only draws on Red Bulls current year's budget when it is used. But that kind of stuff is probably heavily limited by regulations.

Jolle
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I believe, and it’s a strange rule… that parts become part of the cost cap as soon as you run them in a session.