2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
User avatar
Wouter
91
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

The Power of Honda!

bonjon1979
bonjon1979
28
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:16 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Wouter wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:33 pm
The flags have primacy, Marshall’s track side are the first to see incidents and react accordingly. Drivers must respect flags at all times.

Mr.S
Mr.S
0
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:21 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Mercedes has a car which is half a second quicker in some circuits & 3-4 tenths in other except super high altitude tracks or bumpy surfaces. Hamilton despite being quite poor this season will win his 8th title in a Mercedes car which is massively quicker (RB in peak never had more than 2 tenths in any race) !

P2 is the best for Max here & then P3 in Jeddah (Big power track). Then he has to win in Abu Dhabi, I don't know he does that with this car - RB spoke a big game about developing the car & didn't do anything significant in the 2nd half (very few smaller upgrades - Mercedes had the Major Silverstone package before the break & the engine mode/new ICE in the 2nd half & have refined the suspension/rear wing as well !

User avatar
Juzh
150
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:45 am

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

bonjon1979 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:49 pm
Wouter wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:33 pm
The flags have primacy, Marshall’s track side are the first to see incidents and react accordingly. Drivers must respect flags at all times.
It pains me to say it but it's true, this is in my opinion a slam dunk penalty. Marshall flags always overrule any electronic systems. Should be a 5 place grid drop based on hamilton's austria incident from 2020.
By the way, same goes for bottas who also just kept it pinned while going past this marshalling post.

User avatar
El Scorchio
20
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Juzh wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:36 pm
bonjon1979 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:49 pm
Wouter wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:33 pm
The flags have primacy, Marshall’s track side are the first to see incidents and react accordingly. Drivers must respect flags at all times.
It pains me to say it but it's true, this is in my opinion a slam dunk penalty. Marshall flags always overrule any electronic systems. Should be a 5 place grid drop based on hamilton's austria incident from 2020.
By the way, same goes for bottas who also just kept it pinned while going past this marshalling post.
And Sainz. It’s really ironic that Gasly is set to be the massive winner out of all this.

Gillian
Gillian
0
Joined: Thu May 27, 2021 8:46 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

El Scorchio wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:51 pm
Juzh wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:36 pm
bonjon1979 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:49 pm


The flags have primacy, Marshall’s track side are the first to see incidents and react accordingly. Drivers must respect flags at all times.
It pains me to say it but it's true, this is in my opinion a slam dunk penalty. Marshall flags always overrule any electronic systems. Should be a 5 place grid drop based on hamilton's austria incident from 2020.
By the way, same goes for bottas who also just kept it pinned while going past this marshalling post.
And Sainz. It’s really ironic that Gasly is set to be the massive winner out of all this.
Very ironic indeed. Gasly P2, Alonso P3... Imagine a crash in lap 1 between Hamilton and one of them... Thin foil hats would be sold out, race thread would explode. :lol:

At this point I feel like it's game over for Red Bull and Verstappen. I don't see Verstappen winning tomorrow (not even without the penalty), nor one of the last 2 races.

politburo
politburo
1
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:46 am

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Juzh wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:36 pm
bonjon1979 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:49 pm
Wouter wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:33 pm
The flags have primacy, Marshall’s track side are the first to see incidents and react accordingly. Drivers must respect flags at all times.
It pains me to say it but it's true, this is in my opinion a slam dunk penalty. Marshall flags always overrule any electronic systems. Should be a 5 place grid drop based on hamilton's austria incident from 2020.
By the way, same goes for bottas who also just kept it pinned while going past this marshalling post.
They must give Bottas 3 places and Verstappen 5 places. Given the double yellow is more serious. It's like the blue flag stuff, they don't give you a pass even if your team doesn't communicate. They give the penalty regardless, if you can see the flag then you must comply.
"Nosotros diferimos, pero nosotros todos son iguales"

Nathanael F1
Nathanael F1
2
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:54 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Gillian wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:27 pm
adrianjordan wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:52 pm
Nathanael F1 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:49 pm
Unfortunately, it’s look like the Mercedes are just too dominant at this point. Party mode engine, flexing rear wing, abrupt suspension squat…whatever the reason Red Bull is not on the same level of pace. Perez was out in Q2!

It’s looking like baring mechanical failures, crashes, or getting lucky with safety cars or red flags, Mercedes will win both championships.
You know party mode was banned ages ago right?
Depends on what you mean by that. What is banned is changing engine modes during qualifying and race. The actual engine mode is still allowed, but it would mean you would have to do the entire qualifying and race with said mode. I think what Nathanael is referring to is Mercedes is running an entire race in this high output engine mode. If that is possible and/or likely or not I don't know.
Yes, that’s what I meant. Since the engine only has to last a few races Mercedes is probably running it in more aggressive settings, which are closer to their party mode of previous years.
Favorite Team: Scuderia Ferrari
Favorite Driver: Nico Hülkenberg

zibby43
zibby43
611
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:16 am

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Nathanael F1 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:55 pm
Gillian wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:27 pm
adrianjordan wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:52 pm


You know party mode was banned ages ago right?
Depends on what you mean by that. What is banned is changing engine modes during qualifying and race. The actual engine mode is still allowed, but it would mean you would have to do the entire qualifying and race with said mode. I think what Nathanael is referring to is Mercedes is running an entire race in this high output engine mode. If that is possible and/or likely or not I don't know.
Yes, that’s what I meant. Since the engine only has to last a few races Mercedes is probably running it in more aggressive settings, which are closer to their party mode of previous years.
Lewis was using his 4th ICE from Turkey. Not the ICE from Brazil. Just as an FYI.

User avatar
west52keep64
51
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:05 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

zibby43 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:22 pm
Nathanael F1 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:55 pm
Yes, that’s what I meant. Since the engine only has to last a few races Mercedes is probably running it in more aggressive settings, which are closer to their party mode of previous years.
Lewis was using his 4th ICE from Turkey. Not the ICE from Brazil. Just as an FYI.
I guess that shuts that theory down then?

Nathanael F1
Nathanael F1
2
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:54 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

zibby43 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:22 pm
Nathanael F1 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:55 pm
Gillian wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:27 pm


Depends on what you mean by that. What is banned is changing engine modes during qualifying and race. The actual engine mode is still allowed, but it would mean you would have to do the entire qualifying and race with said mode. I think what Nathanael is referring to is Mercedes is running an entire race in this high output engine mode. If that is possible and/or likely or not I don't know.
Yes, that’s what I meant. Since the engine only has to last a few races Mercedes is probably running it in more aggressive settings, which are closer to their party mode of previous years.
Lewis was using his 4th ICE from Turkey. Not the ICE from Brazil. Just as an FYI.
Yes, I know he was using the old ICE. But that means the last two races will be really tough for Red Bull to win, unless there are crashes, failures, or they get lucky with the strategy. That’s what I meant in my original comment.
Favorite Team: Scuderia Ferrari
Favorite Driver: Nico Hülkenberg

Roostfactor
Roostfactor
11
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:50 am
Location: Texas

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

west52keep64 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:31 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:22 pm
Nathanael F1 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:55 pm
Yes, that’s what I meant. Since the engine only has to last a few races Mercedes is probably running it in more aggressive settings, which are closer to their party mode of previous years.
Lewis was using his 4th ICE from Turkey. Not the ICE from Brazil. Just as an FYI.
I guess that shuts that theory down then?
With the current engines in the pool, Bottas testing the power unit limits, and the few races left, maybe they are turning the engines up to only last a couple races.
So they can get the most power possible without incurring further penalty because each engine doesn't have to last very long.
Of course there is a larger chance for grenading the engine but that's (maybe) why they used Bottas as the Guinea pig.

All theory of course.
Last edited by Roostfactor on Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

Roostfactor
Roostfactor
11
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:50 am
Location: Texas

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Magicsenna_41 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:44 pm
Revs84 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:40 pm
Let's not forget that the teams are operating under a strict budget, and given how many upgrades Red Bull brought and the amount of crash damage they incurred, I wouldn't be surprised if they're scraping the bottom of the barrel with quick fixes rather than more expensive proper ones.
Agree but its since 3 races. They can go easily onto previous DRS actuator spec...
Weight is maybe another topic but not valid or an excuse.
Reb Bull have been doing this (or having this issue) for quite some time. I remember seeing it happen last year on Max's car at least once and also saw it on Perez's car during his Red Bull shakedown with older car.

User avatar
SiLo
103
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

As I previously mentioned, this track appears to be front limited and suits Mercedes. Max did a great lap to get P2, I really thought he would be P3, but Bottas just did not look as comfortable in quali as he had throughout practice.

Regarding the potential penalty, slam dunk for me for all involved. It shouldn't matter what race control are saying, the flags are law on the track for the drivers.
Felipe Baby!

User avatar
Jambier
4
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:02 am
Location: France

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

Post

Bitter end for this season, I really thought RB had a chance