2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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The Power of Honda!

hasika
hasika
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https://nz2550.bvimg.com/14347/305e61319e87c504.jpg
So Honda's RA621H made a 15kw~20kw gain from RA620H.The development rate from 2018 to 2019 was crazy too.

N21
N21
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Really impressive graph. I remember seeing a graph like that from the RA619H or the 620H last year.

Wondering what gains Honda will find coming winter or do you guys think the limit of these engines has been reached?

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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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The 2022 power unit is more powerful than 2021 despite fuel with less energy.
Saishū kōnā

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lio007
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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godlameroso wrote:
Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:58 am
The 2022 power unit is more powerful than 2021 despite fuel with less energy.
Why do you know that?

selvam_e2002
selvam_e2002
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The down side of RB is, Honda gone. Any improvement in Power unit and Engine is a new task for them.

If you look at other Engine manufacture,
Mercedes ->already fixed engine problem in 2021 and now the engine is more powerful.
Ferrari -> new engine power unit tested in 2021 race itself...
Alpine -> bringing new engine and power unit. Alpine would be underdog here.

As the Aerodynamics are limited due to rule change, Newly have to find a new trick to gain more speed. RB cannot trust engine power any more.

If they could not improve in 2022, it would be very difficult season for them till 2026 new rule change.

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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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selvam_e2002 wrote:
Sat Dec 25, 2021 3:17 pm
The down side of RB is, Honda gone.
[ ............. ]
RB cannot trust engine power any more.
Honda isn't gone! They still be working on the 2022 ICE, TC and MGU-H till RBR and SAT are going to use it in 2022.
And for the MGU-K, ES and CE until september 2022.

Why can't RB trust the engine power anymore?
Last edited by Wouter on Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Power of Honda!

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Ryar
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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selvam_e2002 wrote:
Sat Dec 25, 2021 3:17 pm
The down side of RB is, Honda gone. Any improvement in Power unit and Engine is a new task for them.
Honda is still working for 2022 engine. What makes you think that RB cannot hire all of those Honda engineers, once Honda stops F1 involvement? Infrastructure will be the only new stuff in UK. They have already hired close to 50 engineers from Mercedes engine division. They probably will hire another 100 more or maybe even more from Mercedes. They are offering double the salary. :)
Hakuna Matata!

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Tizz
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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selvam_e2002 wrote:
Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:35 pm
Wouter wrote:
Sat Dec 25, 2021 3:37 pm
selvam_e2002 wrote:
Sat Dec 25, 2021 3:17 pm
The down side of RB is, Honda gone.
[ ............. ]
RB cannot trust engine power any more.
Honda isn't gone! They still be working on the 2022 ICE, TC and MGU-H till RBR and SAT are going to use it in 2022.
And for the MGU-K, ES and CE until september 2022.

Why can't RB trust the engine power anymore?
Because, the engine tech new for them(RB). I doubt Honda will provide any support as they already wind up in F1.

The other manufacture are more familiar with it as it is their business.
RB has bought key-personnel from Merc and hired half the Honda staff and the support will continue like Wouter said. The new RB-factory is built under Honda supervision. What more do you need ?

Csmith1980
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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godlameroso wrote:
Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:58 am
The 2022 power unit is more powerful than 2021 despite fuel with less energy.
Source?

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diffuser
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Location: Montreal

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Ryar wrote:
Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:57 pm
selvam_e2002 wrote:
Sat Dec 25, 2021 3:17 pm
The down side of RB is, Honda gone. Any improvement in Power unit and Engine is a new task for them.
Honda is still working for 2022 engine. What makes you think that RB cannot hire all of those Honda engineers, once Honda stops F1 involvement? Infrastructure will be the only new stuff in UK. They have already hired close to 50 engineers from Mercedes engine division. They probably will hire another 100 more or maybe even more from Mercedes. They are offering double the salary. :)
PUs are frozen as of first race 2022. Only reliability upgrades.

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Wouter
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Sun Dec 26, 2021 3:46 pm
Ryar wrote:
Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:57 pm
selvam_e2002 wrote:
Sat Dec 25, 2021 3:17 pm
The down side of RB is, Honda gone. Any improvement in Power unit and Engine is a new task for them.
Honda is still working for 2022 engine. What makes you think that RB cannot hire all of those Honda engineers, once Honda stops F1 involvement? Infrastructure will be the only new stuff in UK. They have already hired close to 50 engineers from Mercedes engine division. They probably will hire another 100 more or maybe even more from Mercedes. They are offering double the salary. :)
.
PUs are frozen as of first race 2022. Only reliability upgrades.
.
Image
The Power of Honda!

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Wouter
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Today it's Adrian Newey's birthday. His wive Amanda says something about his cycling accident , Pffff.

" August, I came close to losing the love of my life after his cycling accident."
"Multiple skull fractures / craniotomy ." :o

The Power of Honda!

Snorked
Snorked
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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N21 wrote:
Fri Dec 24, 2021 9:25 pm
Really impressive graph. I remember seeing a graph like that from the RA619H or the 620H last year.

Wondering what gains Honda will find coming winter or do you guys think the limit of these engines has been reached?
Roughly added the new graph to the old

Image

Scalexf1
Scalexf1
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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It’s easy to look at the numbers and suggest the addition of ethanol will increase power, however it does not quite work like that.
The ethanol will burn hotter, increasing the combustion problems that are already evident with the current spec engines. Whoever can master this first will probably match their current performance levels.