AtlasZX wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:20 am
basti313 wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:54 am
tpe wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 15, 2021 10:15 pm
What do you mean?
WHAT happened in 2015? I don't know anything about this story!
It started 2014. After the first race Merc knew that they win everything and Renault, Ferrari knew that they are screwed. It was obvious that the split turbo works and due to the conceptual differences it has a big benefit. The issue was, that due to the token system Ferrari and Renault were simply not allowed to change to this solution even if they tried.
You can, of course, imagine the background noise that started but was never going public until 2015. It was basically as if Merc turned up with a Diesel engine and Ferrari and Renault were like locked on Petrol with less energy density.
I never understood, why there is no BOP between the concepts if they are locked by the rules...but maybe this was something Ferrari was lobbying for.
Marchionne and Zetsche were "friends" or at least well connected. This lead to turning down all Hamilton moving rumors and it led to Merc trading core engine personal (Zimmermann) to Ferrari to calm them down and pretend they get a chance.
But the only thing that came out were most probably some tricks that got disallowed at Merc (compliance!), because they still did not go for the split turbo in 2017. Ferrari just had to make up for the efficiency deficit on the turbo with other tricks.
Wolf Zimmermann is now the connecting person from AVL to Ferrari for the 2022 engine.
In short what should have happend:
Instead of the fuel trick we saw with Ferrari, the FIA should have and would have in any other series introduced a sort of BOP. Means something like 2% less fuel flow for the split turbo. But now we see for years a situation like in LeMans when Audi turned up with a Diesel engine...
BoP is useless, if I have 100hp advantage, I can simply hide 99 of them till I need it...
No, not for conceptual issues. I am not talking about a BOP similar to GT3, where they guess the performance. But really the hard figures with efficiency that stay constant.
But this does not play a role next year, I am 100% sure everyone will be on the split turbo.
Even if the H is scrapped, thay will anyways need a split turbo 2025.
JPBD1990 wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:24 am
Ferrari seem optimistic for the engine project next year. They’re rumoured to ~not~ be moving to the split turbo layout.
There are rumors in both directions. Same for Renault. But for Renault there are already pictures proofing it.
The combination of AVL and Zimmermann speaks for it...
noname wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:47 am
And the problem was not superiority of split turbo concept, that's a myth I do not want talk about again, but vehicle concept decided in Maranello.
I thought the same, but Honda prove the opposite.
Yes, Merc dumped loads of money on this, this is why they could follow the concepts in parallel. The split turbo is still hugely expensive, this is why Merc never could say yes to the 12mio cost cap for the engine.
Furthermore you can take Redbull in your comment as the clear point why no non-works team will win in this rules.
Alakshendra wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:48 am
I think its better not to go with merc design since they are already the experts there so there is no way to beat them in same. Interesting part is Budget Cap F1 means you need $145 million. Peanuts for the big teams, and attainable to the small teams but again for teams like mercedes, ferrari it might be a problem. All the teams are working on this 2022 from long time so fingers crossed who comes up with a better car.
You are missing the point that the engine is not under the cost cap.
Ferrari and Renault can dump as much money as they want on the engine and this is a further reason why they will go for the split turbo. There is no drawback except for money.