2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Mansell89
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Joined: 22 Feb 2015, 19:21

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Anyone got a full translation for that? Looks a really good article from the bits I could make out

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diffuser
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Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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_cerber1 wrote:
20 Dec 2021, 09:38
It is necessary to remember the words of Seidl and Brown, that even taking into account the changes in the regulations, they still do not count on the fact that McLaren can be on an equal footing with MB and RB, but they hope that they can become even closer to them. So, I'll be happy if we keep the status of 3-4 teams in the peloton.
I'll be very disappointed if neither RBR or Merc drop out of the top 3.

SmallSoldier
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Joined: 10 Mar 2019, 03:54

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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Mansell89 wrote:
20 Dec 2021, 17:13
Anyone got a full translation for that? Looks a really good article from the bits I could make out
Here you go:

The goal with the MCL36 for 2022

Third place went to Ferrari. Nevertheless, McLaren takes stock satisfied after 2021. The team is developing. The car has been improved. The pit stops are more constant. The point average per race has been slightly increased. McLaren wants to create more balance between fast and slow curves with the 2022 car.

By Andreas Haupt 12/19/2021

A few figures to start with. McLaren only wrote a zero round in Hungary. Both drivers were hit through no fault of their own in the starting round. There was a double-digit yield 14 times, ten times before the summer break. McLaren scored less than ten points with both cars in seven Grand Prix of the season. In total, Lando Norris and Daniel Ricciardo scored 12.5 points on average per race. A year ago there were 11.8.

McLaren won five podium places. The crowning glory was Monza's double victory with Ricciardo before Norris. Not even Mercedes or Red Bull did that this season. Norris also secured the team a pole position in Russia. The goals in the World Cup, which were aimed at by a particularly successful first half of the season, were missed in the end. Norris wanted to finish fifth. Sixth place jumped out. In the Team World Cup, Ferrari thwarted the plans with a strong final spurt as third.

"Appetite" to third place

McLaren got something out of step in the final spurt. Bad luck also played a big role. Tire damage, starting collisions, Sochi's risk strategy, which was supposed to lead to victory, and Norris finally threw back to seventh place. It could have been at least a second.

We were in third place for a long time. This has stimulated our appetite to maintain this position," sums up Operations Manager Andrea Stella. But we have to remember that Ferrari was on poles in Monaco and Baku. And that on a dry route. So it was almost a surprise that they only came to third place so late."

This is also underlined by the team boss. Andreas Seidl points out that Ferrari was also faster in the first qualifyings of the season. Only McLaren made more of the possibilities and opportunities, and Ferrari sold itself below value in the races. At the back, the traditional racing stable was no longer quite as accurate. This does not cloud the view of the year. The development process makes us happy. We wanted to confirm our upward trend. We succeeded. Technically and as a team, says Stella. With an improved car, you have consolidated in the front midfield. And the team has also taken the next step, for example, with more constant and less error-prone pit stops.

MCL35M an efficient car

Chief of Technology James Key is also generally satisfied. The McLaren MCL35M was a car with which drivers could advance to the Q3 of qualification on every route. A safe car for the top 10, which, like in Monza, also took off to fly high or slipped into the other extreme like in Zandvoort without sinking completely. In the Netherlands, Alpha Tauri, Ferrari and Alpine from the midfield were faster, but McLaren did not fall into the bottomless on his fear track.

The MCL35M did not like the many elongated curves. Maximum downforce was required in Zandvoort. The McLaren did not feel comfortable with this combination. An even bigger wing was missing. Mercedes also faced the problem. In general, the more long slow and medium-fast curves a track had this season, the more McLaren suffered. Angled corners or high-speed passages were the profession.

"We have worked on these weaknesses and have also made progress. Nevertheless, our car is not as robust in these curve types as in fast ones, explains Key. There was no continuous grip over the curve, with the front wheels hit. What was particularly good for the McLaren MCL35M? Fast courses with fast curves, long straight lines and hard braking zones. Monza was made for the papaya yellow car. The susceptibility to wind has been reduced compared to the 2020 car. Keep the efficient.

Unfinished work with MCL35M

The MCL35M had a healthy ratio of output and air resistance. Quite different from, for example, the Aston Martin AMR21, which was either good on straight lines, but suffered massively in curves. And was sensible in the curves with larger wings, but starved to death when driving straight ahead. "Efficiency is an important building block, because the car then works on every route," says Key. Of course, this efficiency would also be maintained next year.

The switch from Renault to Mercedes engine was a feat of strength. McLaren was allowed to switch from the FIA, but no two (additional) development tokens were granted. The engineers had to bring forward developments such as the new nose and adjustments to the front suspension in 2020, because certain vehicle parts were gradually frozen by the regulations in order to limit expenditure in the corona crisis.

The engineers would have liked to have made further modifications compared to the MCL35. For the suspensions, for example. But McLaren was prohibited from doing so. "It wasn't a big disadvantage," Key believes. Because of the homologation regulations and all the trimmings, the McLaren head of technology says. "We would have installed the Mercedes engine in the car without certainly anything else. Unfinished work has stopped with the 2021 car." But the others feel the same way. But it also means that McLaren will be better positioned next year from the packaging of the drive modules under the cladding alone.

Chassis crash test passed in December

If McLaren were allowed to develop the car completely new under the expired regulations, what would be done differently? We would have focused exclusively on the slower curves in aerodynamic development. Because there are more routes of this type than the fast ones.

McLaren stopped developing the MCL35M in the summer. Since then, the full focus has been on the 2022 car, which is being built under a completely new set of rules. The downforce is largely generated by the Venturi effect. "Our goal is to create more balance with the new car," says Key. This refers to slow and fast curves. The 2022 McLaren, called MCL36, is supposed to be an even more balanced package.

December is exhausting for the teams not only because of the last two races of the season. But also because this month the first big crash tests with the new car are usually due. The first chassis existed earlier this month. Development is in full swing. Nobody yet knows what the other is up to.

FIA will take a close look

The teams will only see exactly how the opponents interpreted the new technical rules during the winter test drives. What solutions they come to. Key believes: "The rules are written restrictively. But that tends to stimulate innovation." In all probability, the development speed will be extremely high in the first weeks of the season.

McLaren predicts that the cars will not all look the same. "I expect to see different ideas," says Key. We will all see what the others have done. At the same time, everyone must first ensure that what has been predicted in the factory actually arrives on the track. The correlation is tapped. We will compare strengths and weaknesses. I think from 2023, the teams under these regulations will get closer because the big trends will be identified over 2022."

A topic could become flexible parts again. Due to the return of the ground effect, perhaps even stronger than this season. Everyone will try to press as much clean air as possible into the channels in the underbody and keep them there. If you manage to artificially seal the pages, you could gain a great advantage. Key is cautious about this.

The tests for the rear wings are being tightened up. The Beam Wing is coming back. You can certainly use it in a way." This refers to the lower rear wing above the diffuser. The front wing is a massive part. But there are also strict guidelines on stiffness on this. I think there will be a few tricks with which the teams can play. But nothing that can simply be exploited. The FIA will take a close look at this."

As an organization, they will continue to grow with a new driving simulator and a new wind tunnel. McLaren is upgrading the development tools step by step. However, this will only benefit on a larger scale in the long term.

SmallSoldier
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Joined: 10 Mar 2019, 03:54

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
20 Dec 2021, 19:20
_cerber1 wrote:
20 Dec 2021, 09:38
It is necessary to remember the words of Seidl and Brown, that even taking into account the changes in the regulations, they still do not count on the fact that McLaren can be on an equal footing with MB and RB, but they hope that they can become even closer to them. So, I'll be happy if we keep the status of 3-4 teams in the peloton.
I'll be very disappointed if neither RBR or Merc drop out of the top 3.
The biggest challenge for the top 3 (Merc, RBR and Ferrari) will be playing under the budget cap… In the past, they have had the luxury of having a budget that was more than double of every other team in the Midfield… Now, not only do they have to play under the same terms, they have had to reduce their staff considerably, how much this will affect their processes and procedures is still to be seeing, but it definitely has changed the way they operate… The one out of the 3 that manages to adapt faster to the Budget Cap will be the one that will lead moving forward.

For the teams in the Midfield (like McLaren, Alpine, etc)… It is business as usual for the most part, their structures haven’t changed dramatically, they know how to operate and deliver with an smaller budget and are arguably more efficient in that regard.

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diffuser
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Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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I'll go one further...if they are one - two next year, I'll start to suspect they've found a way to circumnavigate the spirit of the regs(loophole) of the CAP.

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proteus
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 14:35

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
20 Dec 2021, 19:25
diffuser wrote:
20 Dec 2021, 19:20
_cerber1 wrote:
20 Dec 2021, 09:38
It is necessary to remember the words of Seidl and Brown, that even taking into account the changes in the regulations, they still do not count on the fact that McLaren can be on an equal footing with MB and RB, but they hope that they can become even closer to them. So, I'll be happy if we keep the status of 3-4 teams in the peloton.
I'll be very disappointed if neither RBR or Merc drop out of the top 3.
The biggest challenge for the top 3 (Merc, RBR and Ferrari) will be playing under the budget cap… In the past, they have had the luxury of having a budget that was more than double of every other team in the Midfield… Now, not only do they have to play under the same terms, they have had to reduce their staff considerably, how much this will affect their processes and procedures is still to be seeing, but it definitely has changed the way they operate… The one out of the 3 that manages to adapt faster to the Budget Cap will be the one that will lead moving forward.

For the teams in the Midfield (like McLaren, Alpine, etc)… It is business as usual for the most part, their structures haven’t changed dramatically, they know how to operate and deliver with an smaller budget and are arguably more efficient in that regard.
Who and what is preventing them to do the work in remote areas of the world by some unknown subcontracter? This budget cap will only limit those which allready have problems due to a lack of funds. Long story short, the gap will be the same or even bigger.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

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mwillems
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Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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proteus wrote:
21 Dec 2021, 10:38
SmallSoldier wrote:
20 Dec 2021, 19:25
diffuser wrote:
20 Dec 2021, 19:20


I'll be very disappointed if neither RBR or Merc drop out of the top 3.
The biggest challenge for the top 3 (Merc, RBR and Ferrari) will be playing under the budget cap… In the past, they have had the luxury of having a budget that was more than double of every other team in the Midfield… Now, not only do they have to play under the same terms, they have had to reduce their staff considerably, how much this will affect their processes and procedures is still to be seeing, but it definitely has changed the way they operate… The one out of the 3 that manages to adapt faster to the Budget Cap will be the one that will lead moving forward.

For the teams in the Midfield (like McLaren, Alpine, etc)… It is business as usual for the most part, their structures haven’t changed dramatically, they know how to operate and deliver with an smaller budget and are arguably more efficient in that regard.
Who and what is preventing them to do the work in remote areas of the world by some unknown subcontracter? This budget cap will only limit those which allready have problems due to a lack of funds. Long story short, the gap will be the same or even bigger.
I'm sure there will be some creative accounting, but I also do think the spending gap will still be considerably smaller.
Would Mercedes risk the brand image for instance, with more thsan a little creative accounting? Aside from that, with new regulations coming in and the chance for some designers to strut their stuff, I think the outcome is far from known.

In the past I had wondered if Mclaren could send some of their CFD work to the Indy program to work on unsupervised, for instance, but I'm not sure they would do much more than a bit of cheeky extra work here and there. Ferrari and Red Bull are teams that would win at any cost however, so it wouldn't be a surprise to see that pair doing well next year.

But I think that if the gap doesn't start big, it will eventually grow big again. Next year could be a Brawn year for all we know, hopefully that would be Mclaren.
Give a man a fire, and he will be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

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mclaren111
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Joined: 06 Apr 2014, 10:49
Location: Shithole - South Africa

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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proteus wrote:
21 Dec 2021, 10:38
SmallSoldier wrote:
20 Dec 2021, 19:25
diffuser wrote:
20 Dec 2021, 19:20


I'll be very disappointed if neither RBR or Merc drop out of the top 3.
The biggest challenge for the top 3 (Merc, RBR and Ferrari) will be playing under the budget cap… In the past, they have had the luxury of having a budget that was more than double of every other team in the Midfield… Now, not only do they have to play under the same terms, they have had to reduce their staff considerably, how much this will affect their processes and procedures is still to be seeing, but it definitely has changed the way they operate… The one out of the 3 that manages to adapt faster to the Budget Cap will be the one that will lead moving forward.

For the teams in the Midfield (like McLaren, Alpine, etc)… It is business as usual for the most part, their structures haven’t changed dramatically, they know how to operate and deliver with an smaller budget and are arguably more efficient in that regard.
Who and what is preventing them to do the work in remote areas of the world by some unknown subcontracter? This budget cap will only limit those which allready have problems due to a lack of funds. Long story short, the gap will be the same or even bigger.

If I'm not mistaken the FIA's audits includes external suppliers - content, services & prices etc...

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proteus
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 14:35

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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mclaren111 wrote:
21 Dec 2021, 12:22
proteus wrote:
21 Dec 2021, 10:38
SmallSoldier wrote:
20 Dec 2021, 19:25


The biggest challenge for the top 3 (Merc, RBR and Ferrari) will be playing under the budget cap… In the past, they have had the luxury of having a budget that was more than double of every other team in the Midfield… Now, not only do they have to play under the same terms, they have had to reduce their staff considerably, how much this will affect their processes and procedures is still to be seeing, but it definitely has changed the way they operate… The one out of the 3 that manages to adapt faster to the Budget Cap will be the one that will lead moving forward.

For the teams in the Midfield (like McLaren, Alpine, etc)… It is business as usual for the most part, their structures haven’t changed dramatically, they know how to operate and deliver with an smaller budget and are arguably more efficient in that regard.
Who and what is preventing them to do the work in remote areas of the world by some unknown subcontracter? This budget cap will only limit those which allready have problems due to a lack of funds. Long story short, the gap will be the same or even bigger.

If I'm not mistaken the FIA's audits includes external suppliers - content, services & prices etc...
Yes yes, but what prevents a team to make a car somewhere far away (Latin America, Africa), make models and prototypes, test them in private (spend hundreds of millions) and then only bring hard disks of data and start official "research and development" inside original team? I believe top teams can pull it off without a problem. For sure it is a bit more difficult to do it since almost everybody have a camera now, but still you could go somewhere remote enough to get it done. Noone can determine from where the data came, or can they? Call me paranoid, but when budget cap was announced, this was the first thing that came to my mind.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

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mclaren111
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Joined: 06 Apr 2014, 10:49
Location: Shithole - South Africa

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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proteus wrote:
21 Dec 2021, 13:22
mclaren111 wrote:
21 Dec 2021, 12:22
proteus wrote:
21 Dec 2021, 10:38


Who and what is preventing them to do the work in remote areas of the world by some unknown subcontracter? This budget cap will only limit those which allready have problems due to a lack of funds. Long story short, the gap will be the same or even bigger.

If I'm not mistaken the FIA's audits includes external suppliers - content, services & prices etc...
Yes yes, but what prevents a team to make a car somewhere far away (Latin America, Africa), make models and prototypes, test them in private (spend hundreds of millions) and then only bring hard disks of data and start official "research and development" inside original team? I believe top teams can pull it off without a problem. For sure it is a bit more difficult to do it since almost everybody have a camera now, but still you could go somewhere remote enough to get it done. Noone can determine from where the data came, or can they? Call me paranoid, but when budget cap was announced, this was the first thing that came to my mind.

I think there is a cap on data as well which would make it difficult to explain terabytes of data appearing from nowhere...
Not sure though...

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_cerber1
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Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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I think that the FIA first thought about how they would control the expenses of the teams, and then they decided to limit the budget. But, I do not understand why we are discussing this in the McLaren thread.

SmallSoldier
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Joined: 10 Mar 2019, 03:54

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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proteus wrote:
21 Dec 2021, 10:38
SmallSoldier wrote:
20 Dec 2021, 19:25
diffuser wrote:
20 Dec 2021, 19:20


I'll be very disappointed if neither RBR or Merc drop out of the top 3.
The biggest challenge for the top 3 (Merc, RBR and Ferrari) will be playing under the budget cap… In the past, they have had the luxury of having a budget that was more than double of every other team in the Midfield… Now, not only do they have to play under the same terms, they have had to reduce their staff considerably, how much this will affect their processes and procedures is still to be seeing, but it definitely has changed the way they operate… The one out of the 3 that manages to adapt faster to the Budget Cap will be the one that will lead moving forward.

For the teams in the Midfield (like McLaren, Alpine, etc)… It is business as usual for the most part, their structures haven’t changed dramatically, they know how to operate and deliver with an smaller budget and are arguably more efficient in that regard.
Who and what is preventing them to do the work in remote areas of the world by some unknown subcontracter? This budget cap will only limit those which allready have problems due to a lack of funds. Long story short, the gap will be the same or even bigger.
There are audit systems in place… I don’t think anyone will try to circumvent the rules in regards to the Budget Cap… I do believe that it will bunch up the grid (in year 2)… Year 1 will be of learning for every single team, but eventually they will converge and with how restrictive the regulations are, it will happen faster than usual.

SmallSoldier
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Joined: 10 Mar 2019, 03:54

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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proteus wrote:
21 Dec 2021, 13:22
mclaren111 wrote:
21 Dec 2021, 12:22
proteus wrote:
21 Dec 2021, 10:38


Who and what is preventing them to do the work in remote areas of the world by some unknown subcontracter? This budget cap will only limit those which allready have problems due to a lack of funds. Long story short, the gap will be the same or even bigger.
If I'm not mistaken the FIA's audits includes external suppliers - content, services & prices etc...
Yes yes, but what prevents a team to make a car somewhere far away (Latin America, Africa), make models and prototypes, test them in private (spend hundreds of millions) and then only bring hard disks of data and start official "research and development" inside original team? I believe top teams can pull it off without a problem. For sure it is a bit more difficult to do it since almost everybody have a camera now, but still you could go somewhere remote enough to get it done. Noone can determine from where the data came, or can they? Call me paranoid, but when budget cap was announced, this was the first thing that came to my mind.
I don’t think the teams will risk a “whistleblower” coming out and leaking the story… That would be devastating for any Team (and the end of their time in F1)… I’m sure there are a lot of potential conspiracy theories of what can or can’t be done, but this may not be the place to discuss them all :)

geogate
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Joined: 29 Nov 2014, 02:25

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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I dont think there is any scope for whistleblowers - the regs are so full of exceptions that suit the big 3. I dont think anyone is breaking the rules - but the rules are a sieve, especially if you manufacture engines

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mclaren111
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Joined: 06 Apr 2014, 10:49
Location: Shithole - South Africa

Re: 2021 Mclaren F1 Team

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https://www.mclaren.com/racing/team/no- ... -memories/

OK, last question. 2022. What’s the first thing that comes into your head?

DR: Screw covid! That’s the first thing that came into my head. [Laughs.]

I Like the Way he Thinks... :D

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