2021 Mclaren F1 Team

[Mclarensenna]

Agreed an even if the car is somehow a silver bullet the teams can’t complain as it was heavily monitored by the FIA

I think that if we are heavily modified and find a chunk of time then people will complain, but then I think James Key has been quite open in saying that this will pretty much be a brand new car so I guess that the teams are prepared at least for how different it will be.

Let's see how they react if it is also .5 second faster than the MCL35 even after the new aero regs for this year...

How can they complain about it ? It was monitored heavily by the FIA if they do find time it’ll just be a brawn situation (engine wise) an the other teams will have to deal with it

I do think we could be in for a surprise which i explained in detail in my previous post. Yes Brawn back in 2008 had a good chassis but the engine held it back. Once the merc engine went in to the 2009 chassis the car took a huge step forward. Brawn put it at 1 second a lap. Yes the double deck diffuser also helped but toyota and Williams also rocked up with a double deck diffuser not just brawn. The merc engine made the biggest difference to the Brawn in 2009 and it could again in the 2021 Mclaren.
Not long to go now
Time will tell

[_cerber1]

Alfa Romeo will unveil the car quite early on February 22nd, and would like to see the McLaren chassis in February. I think they need a day of shooting before the tests.

[Emag]

I think it is possible to see Mclaren make a huge jump in lap time. Why? Well we really have no idea how much faster the "2021 Merc engine" is over the "2020 Renault engine". Is it 2 tenths, is it 5 tenths is it 1 second even? Who really knows? Its all pure speculation?

1 thing to consider is look at Ferrari from 2010 to 2014 were absolutely nowhere in race pace compared to the redbull. Then 2015-2019 with the oil burning and other tricks and a lot more power the Ferrari was much faster than the redbull in race pace. No comparison really. Night and Day!

Then 2020 the engine tricks are banned and the Ferrari has no race pace again compared to redbull. Why?
Because the faster engine allows much more downforce to be put on the car and it seems to make the car have so much more traction and stability due to all this extra downforce and turn the chassis into a race rocket overnight. The car just comes alive!

The Ferrari was overnight a completely different car compared to the low engine power years. it seems not the chassis itself but the engine driving it made all the difference to how race competitive the Ferrari was if you going back and compare the last 10 years.

The same theory could play out with Mclaren in 2021. If the engine has so much more power they can stack more downforce and the car overnight turns into a rocket right competing close to the front, ala, like the 2015-2019 Ferrari.
Its just a theory and speculation but i do think there is a chance the 2021 Mclaren makes a huge step.
IMHO
Lets wait and see

Bolting a faster engine doesn't automatically propel you to the front of the grid. The chassis is very important. McLaren is leaving Renault because Mercedes is arguably the better option at the moment, but you should remember, RedBull won races with Renault engines. And back in 2018 they were definitely in contention with Ferrari and Mercedes for quite some races. Now keep in mind, Renault made a decent jump in performance from 2018 to 2019, so that gives you an idea on how great the RedBull chassis was. If McLaren hasn't been able to fight at the top for the last two years, then don't expect them to in 2021 just because they are switching engines.

One final remark about your point related to Ferrari. Ferrari's problems this year were not only due to the underpowered engine, the car itself was weak in a lot of areas. There were races where Alfa Romeo was faster than Ferrari and they were using the same engine.

[mwillems]

Agreed an even if the car is somehow a silver bullet the teams can’t complain as it was heavily monitored by the FIA

I think that if we are heavily modified and find a chunk of time then people will complain, but then I think James Key has been quite open in saying that this will pretty much be a brand new car so I guess that the teams are prepared at least for how different it will be.

Let's see how they react if it is also .5 second faster than the MCL35 even after the new aero regs for this year...

How can they complain about it ? It was monitored heavily by the FIA if they do find time it’ll just be a brawn situation (engine wise) an the other teams will have to deal with it

Well Racing point broke the rule on a technicality (Rear brake ducts) but their whole car and the process they used to get it was hammered, so if we are seen to have broken the spirit of the rules and not the rules themselves, then I guess we would also be frowned upon.

[Mclarensenna]

I think it is possible to see Mclaren make a huge jump in lap time. Why? Well we really have no idea how much faster the "2021 Merc engine" is over the "2020 Renault engine". Is it 2 tenths, is it 5 tenths is it 1 second even? Who really knows? Its all pure speculation?

1 thing to consider is look at Ferrari from 2010 to 2014 were absolutely nowhere in race pace compared to the redbull. Then 2015-2019 with the oil burning and other tricks and a lot more power the Ferrari was much faster than the redbull in race pace. No comparison really. Night and Day!

Then 2020 the engine tricks are banned and the Ferrari has no race pace again compared to redbull. Why?
Because the faster engine allows much more downforce to be put on the car and it seems to make the car have so much more traction and stability due to all this extra downforce and turn the chassis into a race rocket overnight. The car just comes alive!

The Ferrari was overnight a completely different car compared to the low engine power years. it seems not the chassis itself but the engine driving it made all the difference to how race competitive the Ferrari was if you going back and compare the last 10 years.

The same theory could play out with Mclaren in 2021. If the engine has so much more power they can stack more downforce and the car overnight turns into a rocket right competing close to the front, ala, like the 2015-2019 Ferrari.
Its just a theory and speculation but i do think there is a chance the 2021 Mclaren makes a huge step.
IMHO
Lets wait and see

Bolting a faster engine doesn't automatically propel you to the front of the grid. The chassis is very important. McLaren is leaving Renault because Mercedes is arguably the better option at the moment, but you should remember, RedBull won races with Renault engines. And back in 2018 they were definitely in contention with Ferrari and Mercedes for quite some races. Now keep in mind, Renault made a decent jump in performance from 2018 to 2019, so that gives you an idea on how great the RedBull chassis was. If McLaren hasn't been able to fight at the top for the last two years, then don't expect them to in 2021 just because they are switching engines.

One final remark about your point related to Ferrari. Ferrari's problems this year were not only due to the underpowered engine, the car itself was weak in a lot of areas. There were races where Alfa Romeo was faster than Ferrari and they were using the same engine.

"Bolting a faster engine doesn't automatically propel you to the front of the grid. The chassis is very important." <--- I never said the chassis is not important, nor did i say a faster engine will propel you to the front of the grid. I said a faster engine could turn it into a rocket, and could propel them to compete closer to the front, as we really have no idea how much faster the 2021 Merc engine is compared to the 2020 Renault engine. I stated it could be 2 tenths. 5 tenths or a second. We will have to wait and see.
You seem to have misquoted everything i said and not read what i wrote properly.

"RedBull won races with Renault engines. And back in 2018 they were definitely in contention with Ferrari and Mercedes for quite some races." <-------- Ferrari was "vastly" superior to Redbull throughout the 2018 season. Ric we know from 2014 how vastly superior to Vettel is in the same car, yet Ric and Max both ended up behind Vettel and Kimi in the Ferrari so that statement is not true.

"Renault made a decent jump in performance from 2018 to 2019: <----- Renault in 2018 finished 4th. In 2019 they had Ric and Hulk superior drivers and Renault finished 5th. Hulk gad 37 points and finished 14th in 2019 vs 69 points and 7th in 2018. So no Renault did not make a decent jump at all! so that statement definately not true.

[Mclarensenna]

I think that if we are heavily modified and find a chunk of time then people will complain, but then I think James Key has been quite open in saying that this will pretty much be a brand new car so I guess that the teams are prepared at least for how different it will be.

Let's see how they react if it is also .5 second faster than the MCL35 even after the new aero regs for this year...

How can they complain about it ? It was monitored heavily by the FIA if they do find time it’ll just be a brawn situation (engine wise) an the other teams will have to deal with it

Well Racing point broke the rule on a technicality (Rear brake ducts) but their whole car and the process they used to get it was hammered, so if we are seen to have broken the spirit of the rules and not the rules themselves, then I guess we would also be frowned upon.

LOL. Nicely said. The FIA seemed to also frown at Ferrari's engine tricks the last few years. They frowned at Ferrari end of 2019 after caught cheating for who knows how many years. And that was that!

[Ground Effect]

I think it is possible to see Mclaren make a huge jump in lap time. Why? Well we really have no idea how much faster the "2021 Merc engine" is over the "2020 Renault engine". Is it 2 tenths, is it 5 tenths is it 1 second even? Who really knows? Its all pure speculation?

1 thing to consider is look at Ferrari from 2010 to 2014 were absolutely nowhere in race pace compared to the redbull. Then 2015-2019 with the oil burning and other tricks and a lot more power the Ferrari was much faster than the redbull in race pace. No comparison really. Night and Day!

Then 2020 the engine tricks are banned and the Ferrari has no race pace again compared to redbull. Why?
Because the faster engine allows much more downforce to be put on the car and it seems to make the car have so much more traction and stability due to all this extra downforce and turn the chassis into a race rocket overnight. The car just comes alive!

The Ferrari was overnight a completely different car compared to the low engine power years. it seems not the chassis itself but the engine driving it made all the difference to how race competitive the Ferrari was if you going back and compare the last 10 years.

The same theory could play out with Mclaren in 2021. If the engine has so much more power they can stack more downforce and the car overnight turns into a rocket right competing close to the front, ala, like the 2015-2019 Ferrari.
Its just a theory and speculation but i do think there is a chance the 2021 Mclaren makes a huge step.
IMHO
Lets wait and see

Bolting a faster engine doesn't automatically propel you to the front of the grid. The chassis is very important. McLaren is leaving Renault because Mercedes is arguably the better option at the moment, but you should remember, RedBull won races with Renault engines. And back in 2018 they were definitely in contention with Ferrari and Mercedes for quite some races. Now keep in mind, Renault made a decent jump in performance from 2018 to 2019, so that gives you an idea on how great the RedBull chassis was. If McLaren hasn't been able to fight at the top for the last two years, then don't expect them to in 2021 just because they are switching engines.

One final remark about your point related to Ferrari. Ferrari's problems this year were not only due to the underpowered engine, the car itself was weak in a lot of areas. There were races where Alfa Romeo was faster than Ferrari and they were using the same engine.

"Bolting a faster engine doesn't automatically propel you to the front of the grid. The chassis is very important." <--- I never said the chassis is not important, nor did i say a faster engine will propel you to the front of the grid. I said a faster engine could turn it into a rocket, and could propel them to compete closer to the front, as we really have no idea how much faster the 2021 Merc engine is compared to the 2020 Renault engine. I stated it could be 2 tenths. 5 tenths or a second. We will have to wait and see.
You seem to have misquoted everything i said and not read what i wrote properly.

"RedBull won races with Renault engines. And back in 2018 they were definitely in contention with Ferrari and Mercedes for quite some races." <-------- Ferrari was "vastly" superior to Redbull throughout the 2018 season. Ric we know from 2014 how vastly superior to Vettel is in the same car, yet Ric and Max both ended up behind Vettel and Kimi in the Ferrari so that statement is not true.

"Renault made a decent jump in performance from 2018 to 2019: <----- Renault in 2018 finished 4th. In 2019 they had Ric and Hulk superior drivers and Renault finished 5th. Hulk gad 37 points and finished 14th in 2019 vs 69 points and 7th in 2018. So no Renault did not make a decent jump at all! so that statement definately not true.

I believe the decent jump in performance made by Renault from 2018 to 2019 refers solely to engine performance, not the whole package performance. I think Cyril mentioned they gained between 40-50kw or that was the projection. No doubt Renault brought a lot of power in 2019, while they suffered a setback with the chassis performance, or McLaren just did a better job than Renault with their chassis.

[diffuser]

Pat Fry:

It sounds simple, but you need to learn how to drive the power unit these days. Even the same powerunit, in a different car, it's completely different in how we set things up.

Interesting... Assume he's talking about cooling...

Think he's talking about driving and stuff like deployment.

[diffuser]

The tub & nose is going to be the same, I expect not a lot else is.

They have already stated revised hydraulics, cooling & gear box, which means revision to rear suspension and maybe a change to the wheelbase too. Aero is token free & we know there is a new floor & diffuser so probably revised aero to work with new floor, and of course the revised livery already indicated.

The thing I’m waiting to see is if they have managed to slim the side pods any or changed to a more Merc/rb downwash style instead or the current undercut style

The Mcl35M will be the most revised car on the grid

Agreed an even if the car is somehow a silver bullet the teams can’t complain as it was heavily monitored by the FIA

I think that if we are heavily modified and find a chunk of time then people will complain, but then I think James Key has been quite open in saying that this will pretty much be a brand new car so I guess that the teams are prepared at least for how different it will be.

Let's see how they react if it is also .5 second faster than the MCL35 even after the new aero regs for this year...

Just to be clear. The teams had to have finalized their plans with the FIA last September. So the FIA have already approved whatever McLaren is doing. There will be no surprises.

The reg changes for 2021 are gonna make making the 2021 car .5 faster than the 2020 car very hard.

Plus the changes to the regs all target the rear of the car and all reduce DF at the back. This is going to make it harder to make use of more power. It delays when you can get on full throttle. For example if last year you could get on full throttle at 130KPH this year it might 150-170KPH, with the same amount of rear wing.

[mwillems]

Agreed an even if the car is somehow a silver bullet the teams can’t complain as it was heavily monitored by the FIA

I think that if we are heavily modified and find a chunk of time then people will complain, but then I think James Key has been quite open in saying that this will pretty much be a brand new car so I guess that the teams are prepared at least for how different it will be.

Let's see how they react if it is also .5 second faster than the MCL35 even after the new aero regs for this year...

Just to be clear. The teams had to have finalized their plans with the FIA last September. So the FIA have already approved whatever McLaren is doing. There will be no surprises.

The reg changes for 2021 are gonna make making the 2021 car .5 faster than the 2020 car very hard.

Plus the changes to the regs all target the rear of the car and all reduce DF at the back. This is going to make it harder to make use of more power. It delays when you can get on full throttle. For example if last year you could get on full throttle at 130KPH this year it might 150-170KPH, with the same amount of rear wing.

The .5 was just a random number to highlight how a big improvement in speed would make us a target.

I didn't know that all the changes are agreed, so does that mean that the chassis and the cooling and everything associated with it was finalised by September? Seems a bit early.

[diffuser]

I think that if we are heavily modified and find a chunk of time then people will complain, but then I think James Key has been quite open in saying that this will pretty much be a brand new car so I guess that the teams are prepared at least for how different it will be.

Let's see how they react if it is also .5 second faster than the MCL35 even after the new aero regs for this year...

Just to be clear. The teams had to have finalized their plans with the FIA last September. So the FIA have already approved whatever McLaren is doing. There will be no surprises.

The reg changes for 2021 are gonna make making the 2021 car .5 faster than the 2020 car very hard.

Plus the changes to the regs all target the rear of the car and all reduce DF at the back. This is going to make it harder to make use of more power. It delays when you can get on full throttle. For example if last year you could get on full throttle at 130KPH this year it might 150-170KPH, with the same amount of rear wing.

The .5 was just a random number to highlight how a big improvement in speed would make us a target.

I didn't know that all the changes are agreed, so does that mean that the chassis and the cooling and everything associated with it was finalised by September? Seems a bit early.

That's the way I understood the whole token thingy. Also if you go back to that interview with Key, he talks about the back and forth with the FIA over what they could and couldn't do. So that was the discussion over their proposed changes.

There were 3 dates that they had to comply with for different parts of the design, the last being in November, I think. I think the token was the first date , I beleive, and that was end of September (or there abouts).

Remember all the stuff about getting the nose out before then....They already knew what had to be done Before or not done at all.

[mwillems]

Just to be clear. The teams had to have finalized their plans with the FIA last September. So the FIA have already approved whatever McLaren is doing. There will be no surprises.

The reg changes for 2021 are gonna make making the 2021 car .5 faster than the 2020 car very hard.

Plus the changes to the regs all target the rear of the car and all reduce DF at the back. This is going to make it harder to make use of more power. It delays when you can get on full throttle. For example if last year you could get on full throttle at 130KPH this year it might 150-170KPH, with the same amount of rear wing.

The .5 was just a random number to highlight how a big improvement in speed would make us a target.

I didn't know that all the changes are agreed, so does that mean that the chassis and the cooling and everything associated with it was finalised by September? Seems a bit early.

That's the way I understood the whole token thingy. Also if you go back to that interview with Key, he talks about the back and forth with the FIA over what they could and couldn't do. So that was the discussion over their proposed changes.

I just went back and re-read this article:

https://www.racefans.net/2020/11/03/no- ... cl35m-key/

So perhaps it was put forward, it wasn't how I read it at that time, and I still am not sure how granular those designs would have been, or if they were just very high level.

Interestingly it seems our sidepods might not be much different despite a different cooling layout inside.

Time will tell and not knowing what scope we have to advance is killing me! Roll on testing...

[_cerber1]

[the EDGE]

I just went back and re-read this article:

https://www.racefans.net/2020/11/03/no- ... cl35m-key/

So perhaps it was put forward, it wasn't how I read it at that time, and I still am not sure how granular those designs would have been, or if they were just very high level.

Interestingly it seems our sidepods might not be much different despite a different cooling layout inside.

Time will tell and not knowing what scope we have to advance is killing me! Roll on testing...

That does kinda contradict this statement in their own website though

The other big change heading into next year, which is unique to us, is the new power unit. We can’t just carry over the chassis from 2020. We’ve had to do a lot of redesigning, especially when it comes to various systems on the car, such as cooling and electronics. Not only will the chassis be different, the gearbox will be too and, of course, the engine, so the MCL35M is akin to a new car for us.

https://www.mclaren.com/racing/team/jam ... a-qa-2020/

[Darth-Piekus]

I think it is possible to see Mclaren make a huge jump in lap time. Why? Well we really have no idea how much faster the "2021 Merc engine" is over the "2020 Renault engine". Is it 2 tenths, is it 5 tenths is it 1 second even? Who really knows? Its all pure speculation?

1 thing to consider is look at Ferrari from 2010 to 2014 were absolutely nowhere in race pace compared to the redbull. Then 2015-2019 with the oil burning and other tricks and a lot more power the Ferrari was much faster than the redbull in race pace. No comparison really. Night and Day!

Then 2020 the engine tricks are banned and the Ferrari has no race pace again compared to redbull. Why?
Because the faster engine allows much more downforce to be put on the car and it seems to make the car have so much more traction and stability due to all this extra downforce and turn the chassis into a race rocket overnight. The car just comes alive!

The Ferrari was overnight a completely different car compared to the low engine power years. it seems not the chassis itself but the engine driving it made all the difference to how race competitive the Ferrari was if you going back and compare the last 10 years.

The same theory could play out with Mclaren in 2021. If the engine has so much more power they can stack more downforce and the car overnight turns into a rocket right competing close to the front, ala, like the 2015-2019 Ferrari.
Its just a theory and speculation but i do think there is a chance the 2021 Mclaren makes a huge step.
IMHO
Lets wait and see

"Bolting a faster engine doesn't automatically propel you to the front of the grid. The chassis is very important." <--- I never said the chassis is not important, nor did i say a faster engine will propel you to the front of the grid. I said a faster engine could turn it into a rocket, and could propel them to compete closer to the front, as we really have no idea how much faster the 2021 Merc engine is compared to the 2020 Renault engine. I stated it could be 2 tenths. 5 tenths or a second. We will have to wait and see.
You seem to have misquoted everything i said and not read what i wrote properly.

"RedBull won races with Renault engines. And back in 2018 they were definitely in contention with Ferrari and Mercedes for quite some races." <-------- Ferrari was "vastly" superior to Redbull throughout the 2018 season. Ric we know from 2014 how vastly superior to Vettel is in the same car, yet Ric and Max both ended up behind Vettel and Kimi in the Ferrari so that statement is not true.

"Renault made a decent jump in performance from 2018 to 2019: <----- Renault in 2018 finished 4th. In 2019 they had Ric and Hulk superior drivers and Renault finished 5th. Hulk gad 37 points and finished 14th in 2019 vs 69 points and 7th in 2018. So no Renault did not make a decent jump at all! so that statement definately not true.

I would like to support Mclaren Senna's theories and add that it is not farfetched that maybe Mercedes and Red Bull might be hurt badly by the Downforce Rule Reduction to areas they were very strong against Mclaren. 10% is a lot to lose as losing that much downforce might destabilize their whole car. That could also happen with our car also but as I said there are a lot of possibilities. There are a lot of examples in F1 history where rules changed everything. 2004 and 2005 comes to mind where Mclaren being nearly a second slower by the F2004 but next year covered that gap and left them behind by a second.