Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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NathanOlder
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Big Tea wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:06 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:49 pm
the EDGE wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:43 am


I see no evidence to suggest Russel going to Merc next year, where as Bottas’ recent compliance suggests he is not a man fighting for himself to find a new seat

I honestly think George is Lewis’ replacement, not his future team mate
The argument against having zero overlap is that George won't get a proper look to see how a 7XWDC works in the team. Just like an incoming CEO that transition period is crucial. It would a lost opportunity if they don't pair them at some point.

I can actually see George coming in 2021 or 2022. But 2022 is more likley. Wolf would want the stable Bottas and Lewis for the new year and George to probe himself with points for Williams next year. Williams also need George more than ever for next year.
It is sometimes the case with youngsters that because they have not been told something will not work, they do it and it does. It is not only good advice that passes on, preferences and dislikes are too. So there may be advantages as well as disadvantages
I think most of the drivers who got to race alongside an aging great all seem to say they learned something to make it worthwhile. A few examples would be Hakkinen in 93, Hill in 93, Massa in 06.
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Unf
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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ringo wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:37 pm
So Russel just has to wait. He needs points. He is not worth the risk for mercedes. There is no evidence right now to suggest he is quick over a race distance. And that is what mercedes need. Bottas is ticking all the other boxes.
What about Bahrian last year where Russell just ate Bottas without any fitting to Mercedes car? O_O
Russel has ambitions, he will not wait anymore.

Only one reason for keeping Bottas is to have good wingman for Hamilton, which is delivering good points most of time.

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Jolle
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Drivers may learn something from experienced teammates, but at the same time, the ambitious (and later great) go in with stretched leg. They don't play supporting driver well. It's one of the many things that set drivers like Senna, Hamilton, Schumacher and Verstappen apart from guys like Barrichello, Massa, Coultard and Hill. The exemption of the rule is, I think, Prost/Lauda, one of the few very strong drivers pairings that had two years of harmony.

If Russell is respectful of Hamilton next year, follows team orders, etc, he's probably more a Hill, Coultard... if we get fireworks, the long term future for mercedes is bright.

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adrianjordan
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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The best argument for Russell to Merc next year is that Merc need to stop another team poaching him.

What if Merc aren't the top team next year, Ferrari are and they approach him to replace Sainz or RBR approach him.

He won't wait around forever, his reputation is already being tarnished in some people's eyes.

So many of the knowledgeable pundits seem to think it's a done deal and, frankly, if he was staying at Williams, then he'd have said as much when asked.
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Big Tea
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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adrianjordan wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:50 pm
The best argument for Russell to Merc next year is that Merc need to stop another team poaching him.

What if Merc aren't the top team next year, Ferrari are and they approach him to replace Sainz or RBR approach him.

He won't wait around forever, his reputation is already being tarnished in some people's eyes.

So many of the knowledgeable pundits seem to think it's a done deal and, frankly, if he was staying at Williams, then he'd have said as much when asked.
I think you are right, but, where would he go?

I don't see Ferrari changing their drivers for at least 3 years, which would probably be his target other than Merc.
Red Bull should keep the drivers for at least next year, so no rush there, and other than Mclaren, which would be nice, there is only AM and Alpine left worth heading for, and these are marginal really.

I did say a while ago that any combination of Russell Stroll and Bottas would be good at Am, but Seb seems to have picked up a little now, and I really don't see Seb or Bottas at Williams.

If Merc can do some sort of deal to get Russell at AM for a year, that would be a good result for all 3 concerned, but other than that Russell would be better off waiting at Williams I think.
I would not like to see him go to Red Bull with the way they operate a lead car and a back up, and I am not so sure about Ferrari either. Drivers tend to love it or hate it there and it is somewhat of a poised chalice sometimes and he has little experience of other teams.

He said he will have a Merc engine next year, so its Williams, Merc, Mclaren, or AM
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ringo
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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adrianjordan wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:50 pm
The best argument for Russell to Merc next year is that Merc need to stop another team poaching him.

What if Merc aren't the top team next year, Ferrari are and they approach him to replace Sainz or RBR approach him.

He won't wait around forever, his reputation is already being tarnished in some people's eyes.

So many of the knowledgeable pundits seem to think it's a done deal and, frankly, if he was staying at Williams, then he'd have said as much when asked.
If he gets poached he will still come back home. Mercedes have a good car; according to some, anyone can win in it. So it doesnt matter what Russel decides to do. He should in fact join another team and get some experience racing against better drivers than latifi. Mercedes lose nothing in sticking to their program of Lewis and Valteri.
Russel is nobody in the grand scheme of things. He is cancelled out by Noris, Max, Charles, even Stroll. Russel needs points.
I think 2023 is the better year for him to join. Next year fighting Lewis makes no sense for the team. It would be unproductive given his lack of experience. What I think he should do however is drive in another car but the Williams, but there is little choice left.

Alpine is pretty much happy with Alonso and Ocon, Toro Rosso is an option if Tsudonda gets dropped (this would hurt Toto personally too), Alfa is a good option. And I think that's where the options end.

Another thing that could be done is Mercedes give resources to Williams since there is a budget cap they can turn Williams into their B team, and make the car good enough to fight for points. Russel could stay there for 2022.
Bottas would then have 1 more year to try and beat Lewis. He will fail and he will move on.
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ringo
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Big Tea wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:28 am
El Scorchio wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:25 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:05 am
Alex Albon. Where can he fit?
Tsunoda is looking a little shaky up to this point.
This makes me think more and more Perez will definitely stay at least one more year. They have nothing of note coming through the ranks at all.

But IMO I wouldn’t want to go there at all if I had any aspirations of winning anything. It’s clear their idea for the second driver is contra strategy/test pilot for Verstappen. Bit of a graveyard for a young driver. Their best bet is to hire a savvy veteran driver who is resolved that they will categorically not be involved in a title fight. Trouble is there is no-one else on the grid who fits the bill aside from Bottas. So weirdly, RBR probably need Perez just as much as he needs them.
Sounds like Bottas CV to me :D
Kidding aside, from a team point of view Bottas would be perfect, but I don't see him accepting if it is offered (unless he is upset with Merc)
I have suggested it before and I think Bottas will consider it.
Imagine if Bottas is faster than Max?! :lol:
I can see Bottas fitting in well. Perez can go to Williams, and Russel maybe gets his chance with mercedes.
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dans79
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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My gut feeling is that if Stroll keeps losing to Vettel, Stroll will be shown the door. Russell then replaces Stroll, and has the chance to prove himself in a car closer to the front of the grid against a multi-time world champion.
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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dans79 wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:47 pm
My gut feeling is that if Stroll keeps losing to Vettel, Stroll will be shown the door. Russell then replaces Stroll, and has the chance to prove himself in a car closer to the front of the grid against a multi-time world champion.
Stroll is in quite a good position. Loosing from a four time world champion is nothing to be ashamed of. If Russell isn't replacing Bottas next year, my guess is an even better deal for the Mercedes powertrain in the Williams.

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dans79
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Jolle wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:08 am
dans79 wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:47 pm
My gut feeling is that if Stroll keeps losing to Vettel, Stroll will be shown the door. Russell then replaces Stroll, and has the chance to prove himself in a car closer to the front of the grid against a multi-time world champion.
Stroll is in quite a good position. Loosing from a four time world champion is nothing to be ashamed of. If Russell isn't replacing Bottas next year, my guess is an even better deal for the Mercedes powertrain in the Williams.
Yea, but he lost to Masa in 2017, Perez in 2019 & 2020, and is on course to lose to Vettel this year. The only teammate he has ever beaten was Sirotkin in 2018. At some point even his dad will decide to cut his losses.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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dans79 wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:47 pm
My gut feeling is that if Stroll keeps losing to Vettel, Stroll will be shown the door. Russell then replaces Stroll, and has the chance to prove himself in a car closer to the front of the grid against a multi-time world champion.
If we go by Papa Stroll's words, baby Stroll is the one looking better in the team right now. Biased, I know. But besides the points from Baku I think Stroll has finished ahead more often than not.
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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dans79 wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:18 am
Jolle wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:08 am
dans79 wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:47 pm
My gut feeling is that if Stroll keeps losing to Vettel, Stroll will be shown the door. Russell then replaces Stroll, and has the chance to prove himself in a car closer to the front of the grid against a multi-time world champion.
Stroll is in quite a good position. Loosing from a four time world champion is nothing to be ashamed of. If Russell isn't replacing Bottas next year, my guess is an even better deal for the Mercedes powertrain in the Williams.
Yea, but he lost to Masa in 2017, Perez in 2019 & 2020, and is on course to lose to Vettel this year. The only teammate he has ever beaten was Sirotkin in 2018. At some point even his dad will decide to cut his losses.
They are not going to drop the boss his son for a short term, possible one year deal, with a mercedes junior. They don't need the cash for starters. Plus, Stroll, next to be a nice guy, performs within reason and one of the better wet drivers in the field. My gut is that he's there for the long term.

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ringo
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Stroll is faster than Vettel and qualifies further up the grid and usually finishes ahead. He is actually a decent driver. Aston will keep both drivers. Plus Stroll Snr. will ensure that His son is glued into the seat.

Bottas to redbull can happen. He needs to start negotiations.
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Ryar
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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ringo wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:47 am
Stroll is faster than Vettel and qualifies further up the grid and usually finishes ahead. He is actually a decent driver. Aston will keep both drivers. Plus Stroll Snr. will ensure that His son is glued into the seat.

Bottas to redbull can happen. He needs to start negotiations.
Stroll is faster than Vettel? In which sport? In F1 at least, in qualifying, Seb is 6-4 ahead. In the last 6 races, the score is 5-1. :) Seb struggled in the beginning and now appears to be comfortably ahead of stroll.

Why would Red Bull take Bottas? They already have Perez. If they want to change, they can easily bring in Gasly, who has vastly improved. It's not like RB has smooth and silky cars like Mercedes has been having where Bottas can come and make an impression. It's mostly pointless, he is going to Alfa as a best case scenario or Williams as last resort.
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qatmix
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Re: Silly season 2021-2022-2023

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Perez is a much worse driver than Bottas. He is solid, but not fast and he makes mistakes when racing. Bottas would be a coup for Redbull. It would provide them with the best team mate in F1 (Maybe Sainz is equal). Also they will get a huge amount of inside knowledge of their main rival, and that alone would de-stabilise Merc.

As much as I want to see Russell in the Merc, I think that the more the season progresses it feels like they will take it safe for 2022 as the new regulations are going to be difficult enough, and they do seem to have really effective test plans with their current two drivers who both contribute to working on set-up, which will be critical when trying to get the best out of a totally new concept of car.