2021 FIM MotoGP WC

[Andres125sx]

that scoop does put questions in our heads

Very interesting. Ducati is a pioneer in motorbike aerodynamics, if the rest of manufacturers don´t react or it´s banned, they will take the lead sooner or later.

MotoGP is similar to F1 in the 70-80s, introducing aerodynamics for first time. Exciting

Aerodynamics for G.P. racing by cars & motorcycles alike, pre-dates both F1
& Moto GP, & for many decades, just look at the full enclosure bodywork raced in the 1950's...

I´m sure you know what I mean, I was not talking about a fairing to reduce drag but about a lot more complex components to produce DF, something wich was never considered plausible for motorbikes

[J.A.W.]

Yeah, it was, but of course, duly banned by FIM reg's...

Winglets on 1970's era World Champion Barry Sheene's factory G.P. Suzuki:



Also 1970's, a more radical winged Yamaha TZ 750 built/raced by scientist Rodger Freeth:

[Andres125sx]

Yeah, it was, but of course, duly banned by FIM reg's...

Winglets on 1970's era World Champion Barry Sheene's factory G.P. Suzuki:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/64/5b/88 ... 5d3a9c.jpg

Also 1970's, a more radical winged Yamaha TZ 750 built/raced by scientist Rodger Freeth:

https://i.redd.it/545esf4v8qk01.jpg

Didn´t know, thanks

Do you remember any comment from the rider or team about how that worked?

[Tommy Cookers]

'down' force that 'leans' as the motorcycle leans is of rather small value
downforce ie force normal to the road surface as in F1 etc cars would be hugely valuable

what direction of downforce does Ducati or others get from their current or new devices ?

[Cuky]

From what I understand, wings on MotoGP bikes in last few seasons aren't used to aid cornering but to help prevent wheelies and reduce the drag by better channeling the airflow. There are also few other benefits like less buffeting for a rider which helps him save a bit of his energy. There are also parts on the bottom of the swingarm which are apparently used to help cool the rear tire by as much as 5-6°C compared to when that winglet is not installed. It may not sound as much, but when you're pushing hard every degree you can keep your tire cooler will enhance it's performance and life span.

[rscsr]

From what I understand, wings on MotoGP bikes in last few seasons aren't used to aid cornering but to help prevent wheelies and reduce the drag by better channeling the airflow. There are also few other benefits like less buffeting for a rider which helps him save a bit of his energy. There are also parts on the bottom of the swingarm which are apparently used to help cool the rear tire by as much as 5-6°C compared to when that winglet is not installed. It may not sound as much, but when you're pushing hard every degree you can keep your tire cooler will enhance it's performance and life span.

Most of what you state is the story the teams fed to the media. Most of that is wrong.
They certainly reduce wheelies, but they also corner with the bike more upright than the cog travels through the corner. Therefore the downforce certainly aids the cornering speed.
According to Aleix Esparago the Aprilia has way more downforce and is also way more physical to ride, even though they are below the minimum weight for the first time this year. And back in 2018 Dovizioso didn't want to ride with the aero package because it was reducing their top speed too much in his opinion.
The story of the Ducati cooling device on the rear swingarm was just a story because no aero devices are allowed on the swingarm. So they just called it a cooling device.

[etusch]

Most of what you state is the story the teams fed to the media. Most of that is wrong.
They certainly reduce wheelies, but they also corner with the bike more upright than the cog travels through the corner. Therefore the downforce certainly aids the cornering speed.
According to Aleix Esparago the Aprilia has way more downforce and is also way more physical to ride, even though they are below the minimum weight for the first time this year. And back in 2018 Dovizioso didn't want to ride with the aero package because it was reducing their top speed too much in his opinion.
The story of the Ducati cooling device on the rear swingarm was just a story because no aero devices are allowed on the swingarm. So they just called it a cooling device.

I don't know if some winglet just below the handlebar can give df at turns to improve for turning ability. Motorcycle turning style is very different compared to cars. It maybe as you said. I don't deny them just I choose to believe what teams are saying about it. Ducati is not good compared to Japanese bikes at turns but very good at straights. If they use shorter wheel base I think they cannot use all of their power. They are trying to use their powerfull side more and shorter wheelbase user teams also works on improving their weaker side compared to Ducati.

[Jolle]

For cornering the bigger aero problem is the ground effect and pressure on the inside of the bike vs ground. In the past Honda made steps to reduce this with small holes in the fairing to reduce the pressure (and they made this a style feature on the first Fireblade). The wings on the side help a little in making the lower part of the bike a lower pressure zone that before, but they are mostly for that few kg for keeping the front down. GP bikes are so limited by the physics of their high CoG that any help makes a clear difference.

Looking at the field, it feels a bit like most (Japanese) teams are still focused on the old fashion bike things. Engine, frame and suspension. Ducati more or less dragged F1 into MotoGP with their fancy solutions regarding suspension (the start locking the rear), dynamics (that thing in the rear seat) and aero dynamics. That thing looks like a 2007 F1 car!

[J.A.W.]

For cornering the bigger aero problem is the ground effect and pressure on the inside of the bike vs ground. In the past Honda made steps to reduce this with small holes in the fairing to reduce the pressure (and they made this a style feature on the first Fireblade). The wings on the side help a little in making the lower part of the bike a lower pressure zone that before, but they are mostly for that few kg for keeping the front down. GP bikes are so limited by the physics of their high CoG that any help makes a clear difference.

Looking at the field, it feels a bit like most (Japanese) teams are still focused on the old fashion bike things. Engine, frame and suspension. Ducati more or less dragged F1 into MotoGP with their fancy solutions regarding suspension (the start locking the rear), dynamics (that thing in the rear seat) and aero dynamics. That thing looks like a 2007 F1 car!

If you could provide a source for that 'holey Honda' reference, that'd be cool Jolle, since AFAIR, their
CBR900RR only received those as a faux 'race-rep' feature, (because Honda's 4T race-bikes were V4),
& following a high/prevailing southerly wind-plagued G.P. race at Phillip Island - which duly caused
many teams to resort to drilling holes as an expedient - but not as a designed "ground effect" feature.

Again from the 1970's, factory Norton engineer/rider Peter Williams made a scientific design effort
to work around the power-limitations of his aged 4T 750 twin when racing in the new FIM F750 class,
including significant wind-tunnel work on the fairing, minimising extraneous flow through the fairing,
but including ducting for oil-cooling & a dedicated cool air pressure-fed engine intake air-box, plus
a broad fairing (much wider than required by the notably slim Norton twin) to provide for full-lean
'ground effect' - so enabling him to 'drift' the machine smoothly through high-speed sweeping bends,
& make up time lost on every other factory-backed F750 - which had power advantages on straights.

[etusch]

[Cuky]

For cornering the bigger aero problem is the ground effect and pressure on the inside of the bike vs ground. In the past Honda made steps to reduce this with small holes in the fairing to reduce the pressure (and they made this a style feature on the first Fireblade). The wings on the side help a little in making the lower part of the bike a lower pressure zone that before, but they are mostly for that few kg for keeping the front down. GP bikes are so limited by the physics of their high CoG that any help makes a clear difference.

Looking at the field, it feels a bit like most (Japanese) teams are still focused on the old fashion bike things. Engine, frame and suspension. Ducati more or less dragged F1 into MotoGP with their fancy solutions regarding suspension (the start locking the rear), dynamics (that thing in the rear seat) and aero dynamics. That thing looks like a 2007 F1 car!

And now we see more and more of that in road bikes as well, especially 600cc and 1000cc supersports which manufacturers (again started by Ducati) are now adding more and more winglets and MotoGP tech so that they can use that in WSBK.


On a different topic, after getting a green light from his doctors Marc Marquez is back at riding motorcycles, though it was "only" a Mini Moto bike this time around



Here if you want to check a full story:
https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2021/03/ ... ths/363889

[etusch]

[Cuky]

Andrea Dovizioso will test Aprilia RS-GP on a 3-day trial at Jerez from 12th to 14th April. There is possibility he'll return to MotoGP as Aprilia test rider, but could also be set to return to racing in 2022. with them.

https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2021/03/ ... lia/364029

[rscsr]

it seems that MM is missing the two opening races in Qatar and aims for a return in Portugal.
https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/ ... r/5847980/

[Cuky]

That seems smart. Better to miss two rounds and come back near his peak performance. He'll have lost 50 points max which he would be able to make up during the season. If he insisted on riding in Qatar he could risk another crash and maybe miss most of this season too.