Mercedes W12

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
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El Scorchio
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Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: Mercedes W12

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SiLo wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:37 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:49 am
bonjon1979 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:54 am
Yes indeed- you can see that from how the little triangle of light gets bigger and then smaller without the car braking, which wouldn't happen if it was what is being claimed.
Won't stop people claiming to see it though seeing as its a video on twitter and at face value, not a random person posting because of the account name.
Agree. it's very sad sometimes, this post truth world in which we live.

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SiLo
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:50 pm
SiLo wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:37 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:49 am


Yes indeed- you can see that from how the little triangle of light gets bigger and then smaller without the car braking, which wouldn't happen if it was what is being claimed.
Won't stop people claiming to see it though seeing as its a video on twitter and at face value, not a random person posting because of the account name.
Agree. it's very sad sometimes, this post truth world in which we live.
It's everywhere at the moment, especially around Mercedes, and a lot of it is generated by Red Bull because it's easy to get clicks pushing their narrative.
Felipe Baby!

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Stu
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Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Mercedes W12

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SiLo wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:52 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:50 pm
SiLo wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:37 pm


Won't stop people claiming to see it though seeing as its a video on twitter and at face value, not a random person posting because of the account name.
Agree. it's very sad sometimes, this post truth world in which we live.
It's everywhere at the moment, especially around Mercedes, and a lot of it is generated by Red Bull because it's easy to get clicks pushing their narrative.
The Ferrari engine penalty was very similar, lots of guessing at what was done… nothing confirmed (except that it was legal before what WAS being done was estimated by the FIA!).

This years rule changes being TARGETED at reducing performance of low-rake cars more than high-rake would be another.

Once a narrative can be imagined it can soon become a conspiracy!!!
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: Mercedes W12

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KAIZEN wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:41 am
There is no movement at the top of the main plane, but there is a gap between it and the end plate.
Is it possible to remove high pressure air from this gap?

This gap has been on all cars for over a decade now. The tech regs give a 15mm gap on either side where a closed wing cross-section is no required. Team use these side slots to put small multi-element profiles or vanes.

Every car on the grid has these little gaps either side of the main plane. Help increase wing efficiency.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌

====Zen level====
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siskue2005
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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Alexf1 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:10 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:03 pm
Alexf1 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:00 pm


Sure it is...
What a great technical come back, I am convinced #-o

Here is the actual high resolution video of the same thing which is reduced in quality and compressed to hide the fact that it is sun light which is shining through it.

You can read more here
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=29672&start=1260
By the time the car comes out of the corner it's already doing more than 265 kph so much of the bending has already taken place behind the closed upper flap, that's why it's so hard to notice.
So now the claim is its hidden and no one can see it!.. then how do people know its there :lol:

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Sieper
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:19 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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siskue2005 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:26 pm
Alexf1 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:10 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:03 pm

What a great technical come back, I am convinced #-o

Here is the actual high resolution video of the same thing which is reduced in quality and compressed to hide the fact that it is sun light which is shining through it.

You can read more here
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=29672&start=1260
By the time the car comes out of the corner it's already doing more than 265 kph so much of the bending has already taken place behind the closed upper flap, that's why it's so hard to notice.
So now the claim is its hidden and no one can see it!.. then how do people know its there :lol:
It’s clear to see in this movie. Just like the other one. You do see the top bend down and also the gap on the side move. We have the scratch pattern to match, the high res pictures from behind, the incredible speed difference and the new wing test introduced.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

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SiLo
103
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:09 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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Sieper wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:47 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:26 pm
Alexf1 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:10 pm


By the time the car comes out of the corner it's already doing more than 265 kph so much of the bending has already taken place behind the closed upper flap, that's why it's so hard to notice.
So now the claim is its hidden and no one can see it!.. then how do people know its there :lol:
It’s clear to see in this movie. Just like the other one. You do see the top bend down and also the gap on the side move. We have the scratch pattern to match, the high res pictures from behind, the incredible speed difference and the new wing test introduced.
It's most certainly not clear to see, and also not like the other one, which also isn't clear in any way, shape, or form. The reality is we have no evidence of the wing bending at all.
Felipe Baby!

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RZS10
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Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:23 am

Re: Mercedes W12

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Do i understand correctly that a gap opens up and creates the scratch pattern? /s

Honestly ... the "gap" is more likely to be the sun highlighting the edge of that T section or not?
Last edited by RZS10 on Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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siskue2005
70
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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Sieper wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:47 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:26 pm
Alexf1 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:10 pm


By the time the car comes out of the corner it's already doing more than 265 kph so much of the bending has already taken place behind the closed upper flap, that's why it's so hard to notice.
So now the claim is its hidden and no one can see it!.. then how do people know its there :lol:
It’s clear to see in this movie. Just like the other one. You do see the top bend down and also the gap on the side move. We have the scratch pattern to match, the high res pictures from behind, the incredible speed difference and the new wing test introduced.
Here’s the first and last frame with the image mirrored so you can compare closely
Image
Its the light shining through

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siskue2005
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 8:50 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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If you see the tree on the right of the car where it casts shadow on the car while they come to turn 4
Ít momentarily obliterates the sunlight and makes the supposedly gap in the wing vanish

So that explains that its light which is seen in the wing edge
Unless now the claim will be that Merc has a system which only activates under direct sun light :? :lol:
Image

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El Scorchio
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Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: Mercedes W12

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siskue2005 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:26 pm
Alexf1 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:10 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:03 pm

What a great technical come back, I am convinced #-o

Here is the actual high resolution video of the same thing which is reduced in quality and compressed to hide the fact that it is sun light which is shining through it.

You can read more here
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=29672&start=1260
By the time the car comes out of the corner it's already doing more than 265 kph so much of the bending has already taken place behind the closed upper flap, that's why it's so hard to notice.
So now the claim is its hidden and no one can see it!.. then how do people know its there :lol:
Exactly. 'I don't need to prove in any way that it's there, but it definitely is because I say so.'

Just like no-one can prove the illegal launch control system on the RB16B exists, but it's definitely got one because their starts are 'too good'. It's very easy to start this stuff rolling. (Disclaimer- it doesn't. Probably.)

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El Scorchio
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Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:41 am

Re: Mercedes W12

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siskue2005 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:05 pm
If you see the tree on the right of the car where it casts shadow on the car while they come to turn 4
Ít momentarily obliterates the sunlight and makes the supposedly gap in the wing vanish

So that explains that its light which is seen in the wing edge
Unless now the claim will be that Merc has a system which only activates under direct sun light :? :lol:
https://im4.ezgif.com/tmp/ezgif-4-9d5ba9d05981.gif
To add- if there's a gap, then how are any scratch marks being created by the wing which is not touching the endplates?

Tvetovnato
Tvetovnato
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:03 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:39 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:26 pm
Alexf1 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:10 pm


By the time the car comes out of the corner it's already doing more than 265 kph so much of the bending has already taken place behind the closed upper flap, that's why it's so hard to notice.
So now the claim is its hidden and no one can see it!.. then how do people know its there :lol:
Exactly. 'I don't need to prove in any way that it's there, but it definitely is because I say so.'

Just like no-one can prove the illegal launch control system on the RB16B exists, but it's definitely got one because their starts are 'too good'. It's very easy to start this stuff rolling. (Disclaimer- it doesn't. Probably.)
The so called gap appears only when Lewis turns slighty to the right to get out of Max’s tow, which indicates that it’s the sunlight playing a trick. The other footage I’ve seen is shown at the start of the main straight, which starts as a long corner. The gap appears when he is turning. And it will probably appear when not turning too since you only have to travel a few hundred metres to get a different light on the car.

bonjon1979
bonjon1979
28
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:16 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:42 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:05 pm
If you see the tree on the right of the car where it casts shadow on the car while they come to turn 4
Ít momentarily obliterates the sunlight and makes the supposedly gap in the wing vanish

So that explains that its light which is seen in the wing edge
Unless now the claim will be that Merc has a system which only activates under direct sun light :? :lol:
https://im4.ezgif.com/tmp/ezgif-4-9d5ba9d05981.gif
To add- if there's a gap, then how are any scratch marks being created by the wing which is not touching the endplates?
The 'scratch' marks show a movement of about two inches. IF the wing was bending down like that, it would be so obvious to see. The only team that has been found to have had a wing that was illegal this year was Red Bull, which is why they had to change it. Albeit with six weeks grace period and two more GPs of running a wing that flexed outside of the rules.

Tvetovnato
Tvetovnato
1
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:03 pm

Re: Mercedes W12

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El Scorchio wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:42 pm
siskue2005 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:05 pm
If you see the tree on the right of the car where it casts shadow on the car while they come to turn 4
Ít momentarily obliterates the sunlight and makes the supposedly gap in the wing vanish

So that explains that its light which is seen in the wing edge
Unless now the claim will be that Merc has a system which only activates under direct sun light :? :lol:
https://im4.ezgif.com/tmp/ezgif-4-9d5ba9d05981.gif
To add- if there's a gap, then how are any scratch marks being created by the wing which is not touching the endplates?
Indeed, this is also a good point that no one seems to care about for some reason.