2022 pecking order speculation

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Who comes out on top in the new regs?

Mercedes
117
26%
Red Bull
101
23%
Ferrari
123
28%
McLaren
60
13%
Aston Martin
9
2%
Williams
8
2%
Haas
8
2%
Alfa Romeo
1
0%
Alpine
18
4%
Alpha Tauri
1
0%
 
Total votes: 446

Dee
Dee
4
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:07 am

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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LM10 wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:27 pm
Artur Craft wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:07 pm
LM10 wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:00 pm
Can you show me those cornering speeds by any chance?
I watched quite a few hours of the Bahrain testings and paid attention to the speedometer info when the drivers were clearly on quick laps. For instance, Russel and Max could do the fast right-hander(the quickest corner of the track) at about 200 kph while Sainz could do a max of 183 kph. All of those observed on very quick laps of each driver

edit: that twitter thread by "Driven by Data" sort of back up my impression/observation
I think your method of watching the speedometer live during random laps in testing is predestined to be flawed.

As for the tweet, I don’t know how that person ended up with that ranking, but whoever thinks that Ferrari is in the midfield at best when it comes to cornering, is in for a surprise pretty soon. Can’t take that ranking seriously, to be honest. :)
Why? These numbers doesn't include the straights, Ferrari's engine may be powerful and their concept low drag which leads to the fast time over a total lap.

101FlyingDutchman
101FlyingDutchman
7
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:01 am

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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It’s literally impossible to predict anything.
FER/RB look solid and near the sharp end.
MERC probably too, potential for be 1 to 4th team at the start of season perhaps.
MCLaren perhaps 4th? Hard to say with confidence but seems the other teams know more about relative pace.
Then midfield incredibly tight I suspect. HAAS looked good so they moved into midfield.. AM solid running, no idea about ulti pace. AT will always be in the mix. Alpine Renault, if reliable then towards front of midfield? Alfa somewhere in there, probably depends on track. Williams towards the back currently?
Then
Last edited by 101FlyingDutchman on Wed Mar 16, 2022 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LM10
LM10
102
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

Post

Dee wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:43 pm
LM10 wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:27 pm
Artur Craft wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:07 pm


I watched quite a few hours of the Bahrain testings and paid attention to the speedometer info when the drivers were clearly on quick laps. For instance, Russel and Max could do the fast right-hander(the quickest corner of the track) at about 200 kph while Sainz could do a max of 183 kph. All of those observed on very quick laps of each driver

edit: that twitter thread by "Driven by Data" sort of back up my impression/observation
I think your method of watching the speedometer live during random laps in testing is predestined to be flawed.

As for the tweet, I don’t know how that person ended up with that ranking, but whoever thinks that Ferrari is in the midfield at best when it comes to cornering, is in for a surprise pretty soon. Can’t take that ranking seriously, to be honest. :)
Why? These numbers doesn't include the straights, Ferrari's engine may be powerful and their concept low drag which leads to the fast time over a total lap.
I’ve not read any single analysis/article saying anything other than Ferrari’s cornering appearing to be quite decent. Even Binotto told that the F1-75 is strong in many aspects.

Binotto: "The F1-75 is performing well in so many areas, including the power unit. The ground effect cars are performing well in the fast corners, while in the slow corners you can see the difference between the different cars."
Binotto: "In Barcelona we saw in the third sector that our car is a good car. Others are too, I think Red Bull is very strong and maybe we will be surprised by Mercedes, but for now our car behaves well in the slow corners."
Does not sound like a team principal who’s car is in the midfield of cornering performances, not at all…

McMika98
McMika98
-24
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:40 pm

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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Dee wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:43 pm

Why? These numbers doesn't include the straights, Ferrari's engine may be powerful and their concept low drag which leads to the fast time over a total lap.
How do you know its low drag? If anything it will be draggy like other cars with similar concept.

LM10
LM10
102
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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McMika98 wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 8:05 pm
Dee wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:43 pm

Why? These numbers doesn't include the straights, Ferrari's engine may be powerful and their concept low drag which leads to the fast time over a total lap.
How do you know its low drag? If anything it will be draggy like other cars with similar concept.
It’s not a secret anymore that Ferrari’s concept goes clearly more towards low drag. But it does not mean that a car which is less draggy has also less downforce automatically.

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JordanMugen
67
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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diffuser wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:10 pm
Off the top of my head didn't ferrari finish 1st in preseason testing in 2020 ?
With their legalised PU and flawed all-new aero? No they did not.

I think you mean 2019 and the Ferrari did go from being fastest in testing to being fastest in Bahrain and elsewhere. The Ferrari took 19 podiums that year and 3 wins which could have been five or more, so as testing suggested, it was indeed a very fast car.

A car being fast in testing, doesn't preclude other cars also being fast after all! :)

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PlatinumZealot
507
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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I think Ferrari PU has been breaking rules since 2015. TJI was strangely marketed in a way not usual for F1 engine technology. It was touted allover the place. I realise it was a distracting explanation of why all of a sudden the weakest engine in 2014 was now rivalling the Mercedes one.
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diffuser
158
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:32 am
I think Ferrari PU has been breaking rules since 2015. TJI was strangely marketed in a way not usual for F1 engine technology. It was touted allover the place. I realise it was a distracting explanation of why all of a sudden the weakest engine in 2014 was now rivalling the Mercedes one.
Didn't Arrivabene get shiit canned for that by Ferrari?

Pretty risky going into a lock down with illegal power gains. You could end up paying for several years.

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Jambier
4
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:02 am
Location: France

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:32 am
I think Ferrari PU has been breaking rules since 2015. TJI was strangely marketed in a way not usual for F1 engine technology. It was touted allover the place. I realise it was a distracting explanation of why all of a sudden the weakest engine in 2014 was now rivalling the Mercedes one.
2015 ? Don't think so.
In 2015 they said they gained 90 hp during winter with the bigger turbo, but it was really from 2017 that engine was strong

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PlatinumZealot
507
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:45 am

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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Jambier wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 11:47 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:32 am
I think Ferrari PU has been breaking rules since 2015. TJI was strangely marketed in a way not usual for F1 engine technology. It was touted allover the place. I realise it was a distracting explanation of why all of a sudden the weakest engine in 2014 was now rivalling the Mercedes one.
2015 ? Don't think so.
In 2015 they said they gained 90 hp during winter with the bigger turbo, but it was really from 2017 that engine was strong
This is what was said that TJI, bigger turbo etc was why they were so strong. That PU was seriously fast and I thought the rapid improvment without much was suspicious. Don't get me wrong, I loved the fact that Ferrari was suddenly competitive but I felt that the engine was extra strong at certain races, even when Ferrari were less experienced mapping the ERS (with extra harvest etc). The Ferrari in 2014 couldn't extra harvest and If i remember the 2015 didn't have it fully.

Anyway just my suspicisions. As for testing Ferrari tends to push more in test. Just a different testing phikosophy.
Anyways.
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Artur Craft
40
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:50 pm

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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JPower wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:26 pm
On the same tires and fuel level I seriously doubt there will be a 17kph difference in any corner between any of the cars.
The lap I saw from Sainz was his quickest, on C4 IIRC. Fuel load is anyone´s guess.

We´ll be able to check that in a couple of days, I´m sure Juzh will share quali laps with speedometer for us to see
LM10 wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:27 pm
I think your method of watching the speedometer live during random laps in testing is predestined to be flawed.
Sure, it´s not even a "method", just an informal way, without any rigor, to have an idea of it. :wink: But I wasn´t taking notice of "random" laps, though. I paid attention to quick laps, only, which turned out to be the personal best for each IIRC.

About Ferrari, we´ll see...

LM10
LM10
102
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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Artur Craft wrote:
Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:17 pm
LM10 wrote:
Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:27 pm
I think your method of watching the speedometer live during random laps in testing is predestined to be flawed.
Sure, it´s not even a "method", just an informal way, without any rigor, to have an idea of it. :wink: But I wasn´t taking notice of "random" laps, though. I paid attention to quick laps, only, which turned out to be the personal best for each IIRC.

About Ferrari, we´ll see...
I agree with you - we’ll see that the ranking from that guy basically means nothing. :)

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MtthsMlw
995
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:38 pm
Location: Germany

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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Rb
Merc
Ferrari
McLaren
Alpha
Aston
Alpine
Haas
Williams
Alfa

User avatar
organic
104
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:24 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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RB
Merc
Ferrari
McLaren
Alpine
Aston Martin
Haas
Alfa
Alpha
Williams

silver
silver
5
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:50 am

Re: 2022 pecking order speculation

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As Binotto said, 90% of the downforce is coming from the floor and its fairly standard without any allowance for a trickery down there. Rest of the performance comes from efficient aero and stable mechanical platform. We might just see cars being far more closer than the past few years. If indeed the PUs have converged in terms of power, there would fairly robust midfield that would make the leaders pay if they fall behind them.