Rear wing flex and FIA regulatory test 2021

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SmallSoldier
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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dans79 wrote:
BrunoH wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 4:30 am
its not total wing flex its suspension thats pushed down due to downforce
watch the deflection relative to the tip of the shark fin, thats takes the suspension out of the equation.
Exactly... The change is not due to suspension travel.


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Hoffman900
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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Marty_Y wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:50 am
I don't know if this is correct but I heard that in theory the wing bends back when the car is travelling at speed down the straight, reducing drag and increasing top speed. Then when the car slows for a corner it pops forward to the correct position increasing down force and helping the car corner.

Whatever static tests they're doing doesn't replicate the loads the car is under when traveling at speed, so I'd guess the clever engineers know how to make it just stiff enough to pass the tests but flexible enough to behave how they want.
That is if any of this is actually true and not the teams making accusations and playing mind games.

Exactly. In theory it reduces drag the faster they go. I say in theory because I don’t have the data, but it’s likely what is happening.

This came up last year and the FIA mentioned about changing the load test on the wing, but I don’t think anything came of it. But yes, they are designed to pass the test in the direction the force is applied. My only assumption is the new test may introduce new load directions and amounts. The FIA is handling it in a good way, but, it’s basically “we know you’re all doing it, so we’re giving you a few races to figure this out”. Doing so also teams lose the ability to bitch about it... they had warning.

It will be curious to see who this effects most. Obviously Merc is playing the media which leaves us to believe that RB does this more than anyone, but who knows sans data. What will happen is that the DRS will have a bigger effect, the leading car will theoretically punch a bigger hole in the air, and it might have implications on set up (drag vs downforce) as well as engine mapping.

We’ll know some of this in a relatively short amount of time.

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Shrieker
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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BrunoH wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 4:30 am
its not total wing flex its suspension thats pushed down due to downforce
The camera is attached to the chassis, and so is the rear wing. How do you think suspension comes into play ?
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jjn9128
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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Bodywork flexibility is entirely legal so long as they pass the FIA pull tests. It's typical Mercedes/Wolff/Hamilton/F1 in general politics. They're "happy to be challenged" but as soon as they are they start whining about the legality of their opposition, Ferrari PU all over again, never shown/proved to be illegal. If their wing is bending more, just do better to pass the tests then have some bending. Simple really.
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Juzh
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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Bending as seen in spain:
https://streamable.com/6xb9xv


If it's true this flex is worth 3 tenths and they have to get rid of it then whatever there's left of WDC battle will be surely completely gone after this change.

snowy
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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That is a lot of movement! Does anyone have an onboard for Mercedes from the race?

bosyber
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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jjn9128 wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 7:44 am
Bodywork flexibility is entirely legal so long as they pass the FIA pull tests. It's typical Mercedes/Wolff/Hamilton/F1 in general politics. They're "happy to be challenged" but as soon as they are they start whining about the legality of their opposition, Ferrari PU all over again, never shown/proved to be illegal. If their wing is bending more, just do better to pass the tests then have some bending. Simple really.
Or we could just go with the explicit rules: yes, it might not be shown to be illegal now (remember, no flexing, as much as physically possible), but FIA may (is now) changing the tests to see whether the margins are currently being used too much. As others mention: we'll see whether it affects much, and for what teams later in the year.

zibby43
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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jjn9128 wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 7:44 am
Bodywork flexibility is entirely legal so long as they pass the FIA pull tests. It's typical Mercedes/Wolff/Hamilton/F1 in general politics. They're "happy to be challenged" but as soon as they are they start whining about the legality of their opposition, Ferrari PU all over again, never shown/proved to be illegal. If their wing is bending more, just do better to pass the tests then have some bending. Simple really.
I'll file this under the "F1 in general" category. Like RBR protesting DAS (which was subsequently banned for some reason - like, really?), RBR lobbying for the elimination of qualifying modes (successful challenge), Ferrari seeking clarification on Mercedes' and RBR's suspensions in 2017, etc.

Oh, and RBR lobbying for F1 to bring back older-specification tires (thicker gauge tires that blistered for the entire grid, including Ferrari - although Merc were hit hardest) in the middle of a season. I'm sure I'm forgetting more.

And if I'm not mistaken, RBR were in on the ol' Ferrari PU clampdown in 2019.

Bill
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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i still want to know what happend with ferrari pu of 2019 its easy to say Rbr are doing something untorward but other teams got away with far more egregious acts.it would be better to compare merc rear wing against Rbr for some perspective .merc have been burning oil left right and centre buffing smoke when ever they leave the garage nothing was done .fia needs to enforce rule equally thats include track limits

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F1NAC
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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Ferrari had similar flex ammount back in 2016

https://external-preview.redd.it/3mcjXT ... 1814cc4fe3

Can't wait for DTS drama if the get hit by those new tests

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El Scorchio
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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Bill wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 9:27 am
i still want to know what happend with ferrari pu of 2019 its easy to say Rbr are doing something untorward but other teams got away with far more egregious acts.it would be better to compare merc rear wing against Rbr for some perspective .merc have been burning oil left right and centre buffing smoke when ever they leave the garage nothing was done .fia needs to enforce rule equally thats include track limits
And likewise, who knows what RBR might have got away with themselves in the past.

All the teams try and bend the rules as far as they can. It’s up to the other teams to keep them honest by policing each other if there’s something they see.

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henry
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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There seems lots of emphasis on just 2 teams here. What of the other 8?

If the 0.3 seconds a lap at Barcelona is correct and we assume that the ability to exploit such flexibility varies with resources, and hence position on the grid, then the grid will compress. This will mean it may be harder for the front running teams to build a gap for their pit stops.

It may also further compress the grid since those exploiting it may have to shed downforce to maintain top speed and avoid being sitting ducks on the straights to teams that don’t/can’t use this exploit.
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bosyber
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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henry wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 10:07 am
There seems lots of emphasis on just 2 teams here. What of the other 8?

If the 0.3 seconds a lap at Barcelona is correct and we assume that the ability to exploit such flexibility varies with resources, and hence position on the grid, then the grid will compress. This will mean it may be harder for the front running teams to build a gap for their pit stops.

It may also further compress the grid since those exploiting it may have to shed downforce to maintain top speed and avoid being sitting ducks on the straights to teams that don’t/can’t use this exploit.
Or perhaps Ferrari and McLaren are in the game for it too (I mean, both have ample of experience from before right? Maybe the people responsible for that have some new tricks that now risk becoming exposed?).

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El Scorchio
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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henry wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 10:07 am
There seems lots of emphasis on just 2 teams here. What of the other 8?

If the 0.3 seconds a lap at Barcelona is correct and we assume that the ability to exploit such flexibility varies with resources, and hence position on the grid, then the grid will compress. This will mean it may be harder for the front running teams to build a gap for their pit stops.

It may also further compress the grid since those exploiting it may have to shed downforce to maintain top speed and avoid being sitting ducks on the straights to teams that don’t/can’t use this exploit.
Agree. There is much more in play here and it could indeed make the racing more interesting.

I think the emphasis is because it's Mercedes asking questions of Red Bull, people are worried about it leading to Red Bull dropping significant relative pace and therefore becoming less competitive. But you are right. There are ten teams in the sport rather than just two, and I think people forget that a lot of the time.

simieski
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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I wonder how significant this is for teams that will have to make changes in terms of the budget cap.
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