Rear wing flex and FIA regulatory test 2021

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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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The way I interpreted HAM, I got the impression this was the first time they used the wing this season; like it was novel? If that’s the case I don’t know that there’s much disruption if they can’t use the wing, it doesn’t appear to be a staple of their package.

Anyway, anyone care to pinpoint where the bending is originating from? It’s like the uprights are moving downwards?
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SiLo
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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Juzh wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 7:51 am
Bending as seen in spain:
https://streamable.com/6xb9xv


If it's true this flex is worth 3 tenths and they have to get rid of it then whatever there's left of WDC battle will be surely completely gone after this change.
Seems like a lot of flex for something that wasn't even their high downforce wing, so there would be less drag penalty anyway. Theoretically a higher drag, higher downforce wing would flex even more.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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Horner said that Toto had previously discussed it with him. Also that Hamilton is likely to have picked it up elsewhere. Which seems fair as there's no way a driver can spot it on another car on track. The teams will have been watching on board footage, seen it and discussed it.
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NathanOlder
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 12:00 pm
Horner said that Toto had previously discussed it with him. Also that Hamilton is likely to have picked it up elsewhere. Which seems fair as there's no way a driver can spot it on another car on track. The teams will have been watching on board footage, seen it and discussed it.
Yeah I wonder if Toto and Horner had a disagreement over it, then Toto got Lewis to talk about it for maximum effect to get the wheels in motion to have it banned.
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El Scorchio
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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SiLo wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 11:59 am
Juzh wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 7:51 am
Bending as seen in spain:
https://streamable.com/6xb9xv


If it's true this flex is worth 3 tenths and they have to get rid of it then whatever there's left of WDC battle will be surely completely gone after this change.
Seems like a lot of flex for something that wasn't even their high downforce wing, so there would be less drag penalty anyway. Theoretically a higher drag, higher downforce wing would flex even more.
It's quite noticeable isn't it. Really would love to see some similar onboards of other cars for comparison.

Dejaeger22
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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At the back of the car there’s a lot heat from exhausts. Maybe the endplates of the rear wing become less stiff because of the heat and therefore enhance the bending effect. When the car is cool in the FIA test, the wing deforms according the rules. I know there was a rumor that RB was doing something similar in the past with the floor splitter during their V8 dominance.

SmallSoldier
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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jjn9128 wrote:Bodywork flexibility is entirely legal so long as they pass the FIA pull tests. It's typical Mercedes/Wolff/Hamilton/F1 in general politics. They're "happy to be challenged" but as soon as they are they start whining about the legality of their opposition, Ferrari PU all over again, never shown/proved to be illegal. If their wing is bending more, just do better to pass the tests then have some bending. Simple really.
And that’s exactly why they are changing the tests... “Movable Aero Devices” are banned by the rules, ideally all of the aero parts will be rigid, but that it isn’t possible, therefore the FIA came out with these tests.

The problem is that the expected Flex isn’t supposed to be more than a few millimeters... The teams are exploiting the fact that the tests are static and have found ways (as they always do) to exploit that grey area.

It would seem that some teams (RBR) may be exploiting this more than others, but this is no different than clamping on other grey areas, like oil burning for example and a plethora of other exploited grey areas in the past... I’m surprised that it took this long though.


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SmallSoldier
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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Dejaeger22 wrote:At the back of the car there’s a lot heat from exhausts. Maybe the endplates of the rear wing become less stiff because of the heat and therefore enhance the bending effect. When the car is cool in the FIA test, the wing deforms according the rules. I know there was a rumor that RB was doing something similar in the past with the floor splitter during their V8 dominance.
It’s not about heat... The rear wing would be 100% rigid if they wanted to... It is the materials used in the construction, the teams have knowledge and ability to include in the design a non-linear movement under load... Meaning that the wing bends “X” in linear way until a certain weight and then bends “Y” in a different ratio after that weight... Therefore passing the static test.


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Zynerji
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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From the on-board, I would speculate that it may be flexing at the tub/engine interface. Bending there at speed would also increase flow to the diffuser by raising the center of the floor and effectively having a Z shaped floor.

This could get super deep.

Dejaeger22
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:07 pm
Dejaeger22 wrote:At the back of the car there’s a lot heat from exhausts. Maybe the endplates of the rear wing become less stiff because of the heat and therefore enhance the bending effect. When the car is cool in the FIA test, the wing deforms according the rules. I know there was a rumor that RB was doing something similar in the past with the floor splitter during their V8 dominance.
It’s not about heat... The rear wing would be 100% rigid if they wanted to... It is the materials used in the construction, the teams have knowledge and ability to include in the design a non-linear movement under load... Meaning that the wing bends “X” in linear way until a certain weight and then bends “Y” in a different ratio after that weight... Therefore passing the static test.


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Yeah, but can’t you use the heat to achieve this effect?

Hoffman900
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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Dejaeger22 wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:42 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:07 pm
Dejaeger22 wrote:At the back of the car there’s a lot heat from exhausts. Maybe the endplates of the rear wing become less stiff because of the heat and therefore enhance the bending effect. When the car is cool in the FIA test, the wing deforms according the rules. I know there was a rumor that RB was doing something similar in the past with the floor splitter during their V8 dominance.
It’s not about heat... The rear wing would be 100% rigid if they wanted to... It is the materials used in the construction, the teams have knowledge and ability to include in the design a non-linear movement under load... Meaning that the wing bends “X” in linear way until a certain weight and then bends “Y” in a different ratio after that weight... Therefore passing the static test.


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Yeah, but can’t you use the heat to achieve this effect?
That would be very hard to account with different track's varying wide open throttle time.

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SiLo
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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Dejaeger22 wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:42 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:07 pm
Dejaeger22 wrote:At the back of the car there’s a lot heat from exhausts. Maybe the endplates of the rear wing become less stiff because of the heat and therefore enhance the bending effect. When the car is cool in the FIA test, the wing deforms according the rules. I know there was a rumor that RB was doing something similar in the past with the floor splitter during their V8 dominance.
It’s not about heat... The rear wing would be 100% rigid if they wanted to... It is the materials used in the construction, the teams have knowledge and ability to include in the design a non-linear movement under load... Meaning that the wing bends “X” in linear way until a certain weight and then bends “Y” in a different ratio after that weight... Therefore passing the static test.


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Yeah, but can’t you use the heat to achieve this effect?
Probably, but doing it via carbon layup and design is much easier, and produces a much more consistent result.
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El Scorchio
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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If it were dependent on heat, wouldn't there also then be a risk of a huge structural failure to the rear of the car at maximum speed or going into a heavy braking zone if the components in question got too hot? I can't see any of the teams risking anything so potentially dangerous as that.

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dans79
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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El Scorchio wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 2:45 pm
If it were dependent on heat, wouldn't there also then be a risk of a huge structural failure to the rear of the car at maximum speed or going into a heavy braking zone if the components in question got too hot? I can't see any of the teams risking anything so potentially dangerous as that.
Yea, using heat would be playing with fire (pun intended). You run the risk of differential heating do to cross winds, overheating, and a litany of other issues.
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Hoffman900
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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Exactly.

Designing controlled flex via the carbon weave / design should be relatively “easy” for F1 level composite engineers / technicians.

The hard part is doing it so you don’t get caught.