Rear wing flex and FIA regulatory test 2021

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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Juzh wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 7:51 am
Bending as seen in spain:
https://streamable.com/6xb9xv


If it's true this flex is worth 3 tenths and they have to get rid of it then whatever there's left of WDC battle will be surely completely gone after this change.
It's bending more than last year's model! Wow! Bending like palm tree in a hurricane.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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simieski wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 10:52 am
I wonder how significant this is for teams that will have to make changes in terms of the budget cap.
A few more layers of carbon fibre is all. It only affects the end of straights by the looks of it.
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Hoffman900
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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From a set up point of view, this should allow RB (and everyone else) get away with slightly more downforce for a certain power level, and still meet their trap speed targets.

So if this effects the RB more, they’ll 1) likely have to give up some cornering to maintain straight line speed 2) give up some straight line speed 3) Honda has to turn the engines up more.

This should come out around the time the teams will be starting to switch out the powertrain.
Last edited by Hoffman900 on Wed May 12, 2021 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Zynerji
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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Still looks (to me) like the top cam cover mounts to the tub are pulling away at speed, pivoting around the bottom mounts, shotgun style, leading to the wing rotating backwards at the axle centerline.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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Dejaeger22 wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:42 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:07 pm
Dejaeger22 wrote:At the back of the car there’s a lot heat from exhausts. Maybe the endplates of the rear wing become less stiff because of the heat and therefore enhance the bending effect. When the car is cool in the FIA test, the wing deforms according the rules. I know there was a rumor that RB was doing something similar in the past with the floor splitter during their V8 dominance.
It’s not about heat... The rear wing would be 100% rigid if they wanted to... It is the materials used in the construction, the teams have knowledge and ability to include in the design a non-linear movement under load... Meaning that the wing bends “X” in linear way until a certain weight and then bends “Y” in a different ratio after that weight... Therefore passing the static test.


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Yeah, but can’t you use the heat to achieve this effect?
Heat from where? Look where the exhaust pipe is and the direction of the air as it moves over the car. Pretty much impossible.

What they are doing to achieve the bending is quite simple actually. Take for example your legs. You can stand up straight and your knees wont bend. That is all 200 pounds of you or whatever you weigh. But if a friend pushes the back of your knee while you stand, it will bend easily even when under you weight. Simple mechanics.
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RZS10
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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Interesting how the entire engine cover bulges at higher speeds...

Image

Image
Last edited by RZS10 on Wed May 12, 2021 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dans79
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 2:59 pm
simieski wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 10:52 am
I wonder how significant this is for teams that will have to make changes in terms of the budget cap.
A few more layers of carbon fibre is all. It only affects the end of straights by the looks of it.
It would work everywhere, not just the straits. The current FIA tests set what basically amounts to a minimum aero load required to see an effect. as the aero load goes up (with speed) you will see the effect become stronger and stronger.

Basically any time the car is above a certain speed the flexing will give a benefit. You could most likely even make this tunable per track.
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djones
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Re: Red Bull RB16B

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I'm no engineer. But that looks to be bending quite a bit.

DarthPlagueisTheVise
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Re: Red Bull RB16B

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Here is a nice comparison video from @yelistener
Technical Noob

Dejaeger22
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 3:03 pm
Dejaeger22 wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:42 pm
SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 1:07 pm

It’s not about heat... The rear wing would be 100% rigid if they wanted to... It is the materials used in the construction, the teams have knowledge and ability to include in the design a non-linear movement under load... Meaning that the wing bends “X” in linear way until a certain weight and then bends “Y” in a different ratio after that weight... Therefore passing the static test.


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Yeah, but can’t you use the heat to achieve this effect?
Heat from where? Look where the exhaust pipe is and the direction of the air as it moves over the car. Pretty much impossible.

What they are doing to achieve the bending is quite simple actually. Take for example your legs. You can stand up straight and your knees wont bend. That is all 200 pounds of you or whatever you weigh. But if a friend pushes the back of your knee while you stand, it will bend easily even when under you weight. Simple mechanics.
The exhaust gases pretty much interact with the rear wing and its endplates. That’s where you get the heat energy from. I’m not saying that’s what is going on, but just an idea.

But why can’t it be replicated during static testing by the FIA? Is it something about the test itself you suggest?

Hoffman900
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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The current test applies a load and in a direction that doesn’t capture what is happening on the car and at speed.

The assumption is the new test will.

SmallSoldier
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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El Scorchio wrote:
SiLo wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 11:59 am
Juzh wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 7:51 am
Bending as seen in spain:
https://streamable.com/6xb9xv


If it's true this flex is worth 3 tenths and they have to get rid of it then whatever there's left of WDC battle will be surely completely gone after this change.
Seems like a lot of flex for something that wasn't even their high downforce wing, so there would be less drag penalty anyway. Theoretically a higher drag, higher downforce wing would flex even more.
It's quite noticeable isn't it. Really would love to see some similar onboards of other cars for comparison.
RBR vs Mercedes Rear Wing... The RBR one definitely “flexes” more than the Merc:




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El Scorchio
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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SmallSoldier wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 5:49 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
SiLo wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 11:59 am


Seems like a lot of flex for something that wasn't even their high downforce wing, so there would be less drag penalty anyway. Theoretically a higher drag, higher downforce wing would flex even more.
It's quite noticeable isn't it. Really would love to see some similar onboards of other cars for comparison.
RBR vs Mercedes Rear Wing... The RBR one definitely “flexes” more than the Merc:




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ian_s
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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It looks to me that much of that flex actually comes under braking and the wing moves forward due to the forces of slowing the car down. What G do they generate under high braking? Isnt it pretty significant? if that is the case, you build the front edge of your endplate to take more tension and less compression, and the opposite for the rear edge.

the wing then rotates forward at just the point you want high downforce AND drag. the new tests would not account for this

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RZS10
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Re: FIA Rear Wing Test - 2021

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Nah the only thing that would flex the wing 'upward' would be it's own weight under a few G of braking - the forces are probably near negligible compared to the downforce.